Iron Heroes vs Conan

[Soul]

I don't agree, while I havn't run conan, from reading the book.. as said above, the armor peircing rules, and 'manueovers' (sic)... bring the complexity on par, with extra little bits like deferant acs for dodge, parry, etc.. Token pools arn't really something for everybody to remember, just the pc and the gm, it is a bit harder on the GM in that regard, but by and large if you can trust your pcs, its a 'non' issue. Stunts and Challenges are pretty simple, challenges being such a fixed set of options with static trade offs, its not really that big of deal. Stunts maybe a bit more work. The ultimate issue is that both games have lots of little tweaks to remember over those you've become familiar with in 3rd ed.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Still, I stand on my point that IH combat with token pools/stunts it going to be more complicated than Conan combat. As a GM I would rather wing any crazy ideas my players come up with by handing out simple +2/-2 than asking them to track varying resource pools.

Token pools are no more complicated than remembering how many times per day you may use a feat or class feature. Much better in many ways, since you can rage as desired (for example) rather than using a defining class feature only a handful of times each day.

Challenges are exactly the same as the "Fighting Defensively" option in D&D. In fact, that's one of the challenges. Very simple.

Stunts serve two purposes: first, they give you a framework to adjudicate all those wild ideas players come up with for their characters to attempt; adjudicate the ability used, the check difficulty and the benefit gained. Second, by being written and codified, the stunt mechanic encourages the cinematic and interactive combat that most people claim to want and so very few games ever have.

As I said before, the OP can't really go wrong either way. Conan is generally slightly lower in power, since the PCs are not expected to be able to take on the entire Monster Manual and have a decent chance of victory; this may be exactly what the OP wants. On the other hand, the additional options of Iron Heroes really adds a lot of spice and flavor to combat, as well as encouraging and reminding people to fight their characters the way the character prefers.

 

[iwatt]

About the combat complexity of IH: it really isn't that complex, but it will depend on your players. I can only speak for IH, but if you have players who like tactical combat (you know, the guys who always seem to have their miniature in the best possible position to maximize flanking, gain cover, etc..) it's an awesome rulest. If you have some casual gamers who can't remeber the basic rules(you know, the guys who always seem to forget what bonus they can get from fighting defensively, who never remeber to declare their dodge target, etc..), you are screwed. Currently I run a PbP IH game (and play in 2 more) with people I know can handle the rules, and use True20 for my face-to-face group of casual players. I tried getting into the IH mindset, and they seemed to like the possibilities that IH brought to combat. But they weren't willing to do the work themselves, so I gave up on trying to handle the whole workload myself. In my PbP games stunting is all over the place, and since the rules are so simple I just let tthem stunt with whatever plausible excuse they want to (knowledege nature, handle animal, spellcraft, concentration etc...)

 

[ruleslawyer]

I've DMed both IH and Conan games. IH combat is somewhat more complicated... for the players. IMX, this means that if you have casual gamer types, or inexperienced players, or players who prefer a rules-lighter combat system, Conan is definitely the winner here. However, if your players would prefer a wider range of tactical options, IH isn't going to strain your DM-ing mindspace much. The maneuver and AP rules in Conan do complicate things for both the players and the DM; it's not entirely a no-brainer.

Everyone seems scared of tokens, but in reality, they're not at all hard to track. The players can each just use a stack of pennies or poker chips, and add tokens as appropriate. The main nice thing about tokens (and challenges and stunts) is that they give fighting classes something to do besides taking a full attack (or a move-attack-move in Conan).

 

[Piratecat]

Including it makes your intelligent, diplomatic and highly persuasive post come off like uneducated drooling babble. It pains me to see such a well constructed post laid low by a single sentence.

Hey, look! A perfectly good post disagreeing with someone laid low by a completely unnecessary insult and swipt at another poster!

A reminder: this isn't the site to be nasty to folks at. Discuss the topic, but do not insult other members.

If this is unclear for any reason, feel free to email me.

 

[Dark Seraph]

Hey, look! A perfectly good post disagreeing with someone laid low by a completely unnecessary insult and swipt at another poster!

A reminder: this isn't the site to be nasty to folks at. Discuss the topic, but do not insult other members.

If this is unclear for any reason, feel free to email me.

DITTO!

I do not mean to hijack this thread, but of late, I have started to see far more acidic posts by folks who for some reason or other in their own little heads feel justified in being plain rude and caustic for no apparent reason. This was not so just a couple of years back, when I thought ideas and opinions were exchanged by members of the rpg fraternity in these forum pages without descending to rude-ness even where ideas and opinions differed. At the risk of sounding extreme, I would propose that the Mods employ a three strikes rule to permanently ban individuals who are unable to demonstrate basic courtesies in these pages. Sure they could come back under a different guise, but precedence will start to take root on what the boundaries are within a forum where discussions are expected to be undertaken with mutual regard for each other. Anyone who feels the urge to let off some steam should go punch a wall and then reflect on how much more it would have hurt, insulted or upset another by their careless words / deeds. Pardon me, if I have gone ahead of myself. But that rude post had me fuming. I am glad PC stepped in, in his capacity as a Mod.

DS

 

[ValhallaGH]

Please don't hijack the thread.

If you want to lambaste me or any other poster, for actual or perceived issues, then please either start your own thread or contact us privately.

Please reserve this thread for discussing the merits and flaws of the two systems the OP is considering using for his game, particularly as they apply to his objectives.

Thank you.

P.S. Obviously, Mods may do as they deem appropriate. They have such authority and it is granted because they are deemed qualified to wield it. All the rest of us need to follow the rules as best we can.

 

[Dark Seraph]

Please don't hijack the thread.

If you want to lambaste me or any other poster, for actual or perceived issues, then please either start your own thread or contact us privately.

Please reserve this thread for discussing the merits and flaws of the two systems the OP is considering using for his game, particularly as they apply to his objectives.

Thank you.

P.S. Obviously, Mods may do as they deem appropriate. They have such authority and it is granted because they are deemed qualified to wield it. All the rest of us need to follow the rules as best we can.

Actually, I have said what I needed to say - FYI!

Now, back to our usual "programme".

DS

 

[JohnSnow]

For starters, let me say that I think this is one of those loaded topics. Starting a "Conan or Iron Heroes" thread is a bit like starting a "D&D or Castles & Crusades" thread. Some people believe that the only way for one system to triumph is for the other to be laid low.

Now, from my perspective, I haven't played Conan, though I thumbed through it at the store, but I bought IH before it was in print. I'd suggest that one's preference for one system over the other would hinge on your answer to the following questions.

1) How rules savvy are your players? If their rules-fu is good, IH is fine. If they leave all the work to the DM, go with Conan.

2) Do the players just want "action fantasy without magic items" or do they want "action fantasy where they could be killed at any moment?" The ability to be killed by a mook may be "realistic," but without some kind of plot protection (does Conan use something like action points?), it can be thoroughly unsatisfying to lose a good character to nothing but bad luck. Iron Heroes characters have a fair amount of plot protection (in the form of high hit points). Yes, the loss of active defense sucks, but you can do a fair amount to shield yourself from that happening...and if you don't, well, that's more than just bad luck.

3) How open are the players to new systems? Iron Heroes uses a lot of new mechanics, Conan fewer. Some people think D&D is too complicated (magic aside). I don't mind D&D, other than the magic item complexity.

A few things to bear in mind:

Iron Heroes is, to a certain extent, as much toolkit as game. Skill groups port nicely to other systems, allowing more capable characters. Stunts, skill challenges, and zones port even more easily. And they add a LOT to the game. Learning how they work is really simple, and they do a nice job of making combat (much) more interesting.

I actually prefer tokens to "per day" abilities, because they allow you to run multiple encounters in a day without fear of killing PCs. That can lend to a "breakneck speed" feel IN-GAME. They're also very easy to keep track of, and for all but the most mystical character abilities, they feel much more realistic. Where I personally feel IH fell short is in not "finishing the job" by making spellcasters work on similar mechanics. Now, that's probably because spellcasting isn't Mike Mearls' design specialty, but that Monte Cook guy has designed a spell or two in his day...

Now if we could just get a hit point system that worked better. I'm thinking something like WP/VP without the added random lethality.

 

[argo]

(does Conan use something like action points?)

Fate Points. They are less plentiful than action points but more powerfull. One use of them is to be "Left For Dead" which works prety much the way you would expect.