Iron Lore: Malhavoc's Surprise?

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Don't you think it likely they are saving the high level playtest comments to draw an attention spike right before release? Granted I don't work for Monte or anything, but I'm betting they had the ability to interest more that two playtest groups. Perhaps it's not that they didn't test it at high levels so much as that they understand the concept of a slow build-up, and that they maintain our interest with the questions they haven't answered.

I think it more likely that talking about the low levels is safer in terms of what they want to reveal at this point.

We know the high level play is a feature, and we know all the features we've seen are based around character creation. We know from earlier in the thread that they have a preview plan and that they are sticking to it. And we know from initial comments on the playtester spotlights by the playtesters that though there goal was to sneak in as many details as they could they weren't working with full creative control over their feedback.

So I think that what they are really trying to prevent is everyone talking all over the place and that discussion of high level play has been sort of a casualty of that dynamic.

 

[Felon]

Here's an IL update that may not have been posted yet.

Goodman Games' adventure module, titled Song of the Blade, takes beginning characters on a daring quest through spider-haunted forests, using unique encounters to highlight the martial variant rules of Iron Heroes. Written by veteran d20 author Matt Sprengeler, Song of the Blade is scheduled for September release. Advance copies will be available at the Gen Con Game Fair this August in Indianapolis.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Here's an IL update that may not have been posted yet.

Eh, I guess we'll see. I'm not familiar with Goodman Games, though I've heard good things. Personally, I have a back-log of adventures I want to (re)play. I'm waiting to see if the "fast NPC's" bit is true, because I'm curious to see how long it takes to whip up a conversion for an oldy-but-goody like Sunless Citadel or Keep on the Borderlands. That might have to wait until Mastering Iron Heroes and the Bestiary book comes out to really do right though.

This is a test.

 

[JEL]

Finally got the English language release of Berserk vol. 7 (manga) today and reading it hit me that Iron Heroes may be a perfect fit for it. It features a lot of grit, a lot of grimness, and yet has heroic characters that can take on a hundred mercenaries at a time or Lovecraftian horrors from beyond. Now I'm seriously inspired. Anyone got any good blackmail on Cooke so we get this thing out faster?

 

[Irda Ranger]

Anyone got any good blackmail on Cooke so we get this thing out faster?

Patience young Padawan. Remember the Disaster of Conan's First Printing. The lotus blooms according to the seasons, not our desires.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Wulf is going to be churlish, and I won't blame him

Some excerpts from an Arcana Evolved chat that went off-topic. I have assigned the various quotes topic headings. In your discussions please be clear which topic you are replying to, just to keep the coversation clear & organized.

CR Equivalence

Stalker0 (May 26, 2005 8:27:27 PM)
Question: Iron Heroes are apparantely able to go toe to toe with an equivalent CR encounter. How do high level Iron Hero characters deal with creatures that can make you fly, turn you to stone, or send you to another plane without the great deal of magic items that typical Pcs enjoy?

Mike Mearls (May 26, 2005 8:28:41 PM)
There's a variety of ways you can deal with this. In many cases, the question applies equally to D&D. If the party wizard can't do planar travel, and you don't have a cleric, you might be stuck in either game. So, on some level the DM has to work around such things.

Mike Mearls (May 26, 2005 8:29:58 PM)
The key from a mechanical perspective lies in a few minor, but important, changes to th system. For example, who says that level drain has to work the same in all d20 games? Stuff like that. There is also some advice on working with such abilities in, I believe, the monster book. For instance, if a PC is turned to stone by a medusa, the PCs might have to go on a quest to find the elixir to cure him.

Token Use by Class

cupchurch (May 26, 2005 8:33:22 PM)
Do all of the IH classes use the token mechanic?

Mike Mearls (May 26, 2005 8:34:28 PM)
Nope, just most of them. IIRC, men-at-arms, the harrier, and the arcanist do not use tokens. The harrier just didn't fit with tokens, while the man-at-arms was consciously developed for players (likely casual gamers) who wanted to keep their character as close to a D&D one as possible. It's a sort of bridge class, though it still has plenty of fun options.

Wealth vs. Experience Awards

wizofice (May 26, 2005 8:51:42 PM)
Mike, there's a thread in the Iron Heroes forum where people are making guesses as to (since there's not much in the way of magic items), where does all the gold go? Care to comment?

Monte Cook (May 26, 2005 8:52:17 PM)
That's a topic well-handled in the Mastering Iron Heroes book.

Mike Mearls (May 26, 2005 8:53:29 PM)
That's covered in the DM's book. I give a few options and ideas, particularly with the alternate XP systems. For instance, let's say you want to run a game where the PCs are criminals, and maybe they don't trust each other. In that sort of game, you might award XP for the gold they recover. If a PC steals something without the rest of the party knowing about it, he might get bonus XP for that. When you pull money away from its current place in D&D (it's basically your point total for the point-buy/magic item part of character creation) you can do some really interesting stuff.

Spell Recipes

Mike Mearls (May 26, 2005 8:58:50 PM)
The arcanist gains access to spell methods and a set of arcane class abilities. For example, you can create an arcanist who can blast his enemies with bolts of energy at will. The spell system takes a little getting used to. In essence, you gain access to a few spell recipes that you use to build spell effects. So, for an attack spell you choose the damage, area of effect, and energy type, then cast the spell. The more options a spell has, and the more abilities it features, the harder it is to cast and the more mana it costs.

The Implied Setting

Mike Mearls (May 26, 2005 9:00:48 PM)
There really isn't an implied setting, per se. There's a sample setting called the Swordlands that touches on a lot of classic, pre-Terry Brooks/Tolkien clone sword & sorcery. Gamers are familiar enough with the style of play in Iron Heroes that I think an implied setting would just get in the way.

I have my opinions of course (see the post title), but for now I will let the words speak for themselves.

 

[Andor]

Nifty stuff there. Now we know who doesn't have tokens and why. More about the Arcanist. Although the mana reference puzzles me. I thought the Arcanist was a purely skill based spell caster but that implies that he has spell points too. Hmm.... We can also now figure that a necromancer is just an Arcanist who took the 'animate stuff' spell recipe.

 

[Irda Ranger]

More about the Arcanist. Although the mana reference puzzles me. I thought the Arcanist was a purely skill based spell caster but that implies that he has spell points too.

With regards to the Mana, I think we can look to how an Archer accumulates Tokens: per action.

 

[BryonD]

Those tidbits sound good to me.

I know Conan and such have been the model most thrown around. But I'm seeing more that makes me think specifically of Sinbad and Jason & the Argonauts type stuff. Sinbad never had magic gear, but he fought against magic and monsters all the time. And quests for the magic elixir (or whatever) were pretty standard plot elements.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Wulf's going to be churlish, and I don't blame him.

Are you being churlish by not directly saying what's on your mind? What new information does that chat reveal to you?

Until I can see the guts of this baby, though, I think Iron Lore hasn't changed much with regards to "low magic," mechanically, that you can't address with Action Points by controlling the size of the die and the frequency of AP pool refresh.

That does not, of course, take into account new rules systems mearls has developed which are unique and interesting in their own right-- Tokens, Skill Groups, Feat Mastery, etc. And of course Stunts, Stunts, Stunts.

As I said before, it still sounds very much like Iron Lore will be a fun game to play, it's just that I would be playing it for its own sake and not because I want to be able to run Conan, Fafhrd, and the Grey Mouser through Heart of Nightfang Spire

I expect Iron Lore will provide "rollicking high action melee" and that is compliment enough in its own right.


Wulf