Iron Lore: Malhavoc's Surprise?

[Particle_Man]

Well, I would be a tiny bit worried about "power creep". I know that mixing IH characters with standard D&D magic items would be too much. I worry that mixing IH characters with MW items that are like magic items except that they don't detect as magical might also be too much. But for all I know IH might have rules for MW items itself, so I will wait and see.

 

[Andor]

Actually Mike has already said there isn't an expanded MW weapons section, since that would detract from the core message of the book, which is "It's not the sword, it's the arm that weilds it."

That having been said, what you do at your own table is up to you.

 

[Nifelhein]

Not to say that both systems are made to supply an absence of magic items, using both might end up making it all too powerful, mroe than you would ordinarily see as a GM, but whatever floats your boat!

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Actually Mike has already said there isn't an expanded MW weapons section, since that would detract from the core message of the book, which is "It's not the sword, it's the arm that weilds it."

That having been said, what you do at your own table is up to you.

I had remembered that he had said there wouldn't be a system like the BCCS masterwork system, but I think the idea that there might be some sort of craft stunt you can pull isn't a bad fit for IH.

 

[JohnSnow]

The info from the most recent Insider helps out a lot. Going back over some of what we learned earlier (but didn't understand), and combining it with some of what we've learned more recently is pretty instructive.

Mike made an offhand comment (in his rambling about the WAR picture) about the berzerker maybe having ranks in perform that he used to taunt his enemies into engaging him in melee. Combine that with this quote:

Iron Heroes adds challenges to the mix to make skills more flexible. In exchange for a penalty to your skill check or an increase in the check’s Difficulty Class, you gain more benefits from success. For example, you can use the Perform skill to inspire your allies in battle, granting them a bonus to attacks. If you accept a penalty to your Perform check in a skill challenge,the total bonus you grant as a result increases. As you gain more ranks in Perform, you can accept higher penalties to grant even greater bonuses.

It would seem one of the "challenges" available to characters with the perform skill is using it to taunt characters into combat. Overall, I have to say that I don't object at all to giving characters things to do with skills. And I think you'll get more "bard-types" in Iron Heroes than there are in standard D&D. It's just rather than being straight bards, they'll be a Hunter (or multiclass hunter) with ranks in Perform...kinda like, oh, Aragorn.

By the by, I think Mike let slip that there WILL be multiclassing in Iron Heroes when he said that picture looked like "a single-classed berzerker..." It seems to me that if it weren't possible to multiclass, he wouldn't have felt the need to clarify.

Still digesting the rest of this, but I don't think this thread should slip past page 3, so I wanted to post something.

Back later with more...

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

The skill challenge system interests me a great deal, particularly in combination with the harrier teasers.

It'll be interesting to see how much of a refinement this is from the rather sparse stunt system that ran with Iron Might.

Well not so much sparse as, hmmm.

In Iron Might there was a pretty neat maneuver system where you could take combat penalties in exchange for gaining certain specific effects, much of which seems to have been redone through the Power Attack feat chain. There was a also a fairly brief section detailing additional maneuvers for skills along the lines of feint for Bluff.

From the clues that have been dropped so far the skill system in IH seems to be a massive expansion of that last chapter, at the least, and very likely a pretty extensive restructuring considering the vaunted flexibility of the challenge system. I mean a flexible bard like set of abilities built off of performance is already a huge leap up from the system detailed in that book. I'm not really certain, yet, how it compares to the mechanics of the bard itself but the amount of effort Mike put into trying to figure out the skills for the character he built on the picture and how much he thought those skills worked into the strategy lead me to think... Well, they lead me to think too much.

Skills have always struck me as the least appreciated part of D20 and I see a lot of brilliance in what is being hinted at for IH in terms of what I've seen in the history of d20 thus far. I just hope it's portable.

 

[A'koss]

Iron Lore Design Diary #5 is up, this time discussing Tokens.

http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?designdiary_mmearls_15

Some points of note:

" In essence, a token is an abstract measure of the time, effort, and energy invested in your preparation for an attack. After you build up tokens, you can spend them to activate your special abilities."

With the exception of the Hunter, I gather this means that all token-based abilities require that you spend some time building them up. We're also beginning to see the real value in the Hunter's ability to lend tokens to other characters.

I'm now very interested in how the Weapon Master accumulates tokens.

"This approach had a lot of appeal to me, because it emphasized action and removed any constraints on using your abilities that could force the PCs to camp or rest after a tough fight. The number of tokens you burn through in a given fight has absolutely no effect on the number you can earn and use in the next encounter."

This is the philosophy (balance against the encounter, instead of per day) of IL that really sold it for me.

"Next week, we'll preview some feats and character classes that use tokens to show you how they work in practice."

So... now we know for certain that some feats use tokens too. Not sure yet how I feel about trying to keep track of multiple token pools, but will wait until we see some examples.

A'koss.

 

[mearls]

How the Harrier gets fewer hitpoints than the archer is beyond me. They'd better have some frekkin amazing defenses or it's gonna be the glass ninja all over again only with a lot more glass.

The harrier's HD was upped to 1d4+4 after playtest. If that change isn't in the final book (it should be - IIRC the preview is from a loooong while back) it'll be errata'd 0.43 seconds after the book comes out.

 

[A'koss]

The harrier's HD was upped to 1d4+4 after playtest. If that change isn't in the final book (it should be - IIRC the preview is from a loooong while back) it'll be errata'd 0.43 seconds after the book comes out.

Cool. Is there a list of errata already being compiled?

Also, have you seen the final book yet? Monte said it had already gone to the printers...


Cheers!

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

The harrier's HD was upped to 1d4+4 after playtest. If that change isn't in the final book (it should be - IIRC the preview is from a loooong while back) it'll be errata'd 0.43 seconds after the book comes out.

Oh, that's very good to hear. As a side note, I'd very much like to tender my complements on the harrier as I saw it in the preview. I had my share of worries about a non-token using class filling that slot, but the more I think on what I've seen the more admiration I gain not only for the decision not to use tokens but for the manner in which that decision was implemented.