Iron Lore: Malhavoc's Surprise?

[Wulf Ratbane]

Armor and Damage Reduction - This I like in theory, but contrarily to what Mr Mearls says, I believe it will slow game play down.

Well, yes, obviously rolling an extra die has to take some time.

But perhaps with spellcasting out of the way, and the simplification of AoO among other things, Iron Lore brings a net gain to the speed of combat.

Well-- maybe not exactly. Let me back up. The focus of Iron Lore is obviously combat. It's not necessarily a bad thing for combats to take longer, if the combats are fast paced and exciting throughout. I think that's the point.

To say that combats take longer is not necessarily a bad thing. You just don't want combats to DRAG.

Sort of like, I don't notice that Return of the King is over 3 hours long. You DO notice that Titanic is over 3 hours long.

 

[mearls]

Rolling for DR had me worried, since it had the potential to slow things down. However, in play it has little, pretty much no, effect on speed.

The key is pretty simple, and it all came to light when I watched a playtest group. The DM announces damage to a player, and before the player writes down his new hp total he rolls his DR and adjusts the damage taken. The act of writing down a PC's new hit point total takes a moment anyway, and it seems that the roll for DR is simply tucked into that act.

The real key is that the player can take care of his DR while the DM continues resolving the monster's action or the next player takes her turn. If you're interested in seeing the effect, next time you play D&D roll a d6 and check the result each time you have to record damage to your PC.

It is worth noting that, aside from NPCs in armor, the DM won't roll for DR. Monsters treat natural armor as a modifier to Defense. I intentionally did this to make bookkeeping easier for the DM.

 

[A'koss]

My take...

Point Buy Ability Scores:
IL looks like it handles stat generation pretty much the same way I do in my own LM game and keeps the players on a level playing field... I tend to hand out a generous amount as well to the help survivability. I'm hoping that IL will hand out stat bonuses much like the way it's handled in Conan: +1 point to all ability scores every X levels. That will also helps maintain game balance at higher levels so the stat disparities don't grow too great.

Base Defense Bonus:
Not much to comment on here other than I can finally have a truly viable "Duelist-style" character again...

Armor and Damage Reduction:
Yeah, I was speculating on ENWorld that it would either be like this (Alternity-style) or reducing the damage die in steps (a la Earthdawn). I've used this style of DR before and I'm okay with it, it is one of the better ways to handle it indeed. I understand the reasons why Mike has decided to forego giving natural armor DR, and it will help out in play, but there will always be that logical disjoin...

Skills Matter in Combat:
We were just discussing skill groups on ENW barely a week ago. Consolidation and simplification is good and I'm glad to see it here. And now it looks like the warrior classes are about to get a lot more interesting with combat skill use. Can't wait!

Expanded Feat System:
I like the sound of this too. My hope here is that Mike has tweaked the balance of the feats themselves to better balance them against one another. I would hate to see one or two combat styles completely dominate in the game. In another take, Sean Reynolds had come up with an interesting idea where feats had a cost in "feat points" depending on their value in-game. I know it wouldn't be used here, but it was an interesting idea...

Combat Tweaks:
All of these sound good. It looks like IL characters will have a whole array of tasty combat options with stunts and challenges. The simplified AoO sound good, I just hope it doesn't slow combat down too much.

Character Traits:
Another good idea, and one I also use in my own game. I'm curious to see an example of this...

Magic:
The skill-based magic sounds like a lot of fun. I love the "create an effect on the fly" idea - I have high hopes for this so long as it's not too unweildy in play.

Tokens:
Hmmm... I can take it or leave it. We'll see how they're used but I'm usually not big on poker chip powers.

So far, so good...

Cheers!

 

[EricNoah]

I too thought "Alternity" the second I read about random armor DR. And that's not a bad thing in my book. Steffan -- great insight on how DR can differentiate different kinds of armor.

I like a mechanic that gives the players more power to decide when they are going to have a little good luck come their way. Allows for a little more strategy -- instead of just reacting to situations, they can be setting up more situations. I'm hoping the tokens dealy-bob is a step in that direction.

 

[BryonD]

Steffan -- great insight on how DR can differentiate different kinds of armor.

Agreed. That thought certainly increased my interest in the idea.

 

[Particle_Man]

If there is DR that is common, does that mean that the "less attacks with a BIG 2-handed weapon guy" is going to be more effective than that "more attacks with smaller weapons guy"? Because the DR would apply to each attack, I assume. Of course, there may be feats, etc., that allow one to ignore DR if one is the "more attacks with smaller weapons guy".

 

[mearls]

If there is DR that is common, does that mean that the "less attacks with a BIG 2-handed weapon guy" is going to be more effective than that "more attacks with smaller weapons guy"? Because the DR would apply to each attack, I assume. Of course, there may be feats, etc., that allow one to ignore DR if one is the "more attacks with smaller weapons guy".

There's two facets to this issue:

1. The vast majority of monsters don't have DR, just like in D&D. So, a light, low-damage but many attacks fighter works pretty much the same in IL as in D&D.

2. It makes sense to me that a warrior who uses a light, fast, agile weapon would strike with more accuracy than one with a big sword. I see a warrior with a rapier as picking out gaps between a foe's armor, or an archer taking aim and hitting the space between two plates. So, you can expect to see that in the rules.

 

[Capellan]

Point-Buy Ability Scores - I hate this. It fosters a politically correct, everyone is equal state of mind. I realize it's for game balance, so Joe doesn't have 5 18s and Tim has 5 9s for stats. But so be it, everyone is NOT created equal, else I'd be pitching for the Yankees alongside RJ.

Well, it's not like mearls is going to come to your house and beat you up if you choose to do something else, you know

PCs have a heroic stature. They are stronger, smarter, and faster than normal - This I really don't like. I lie the old AD&D method, where pcs were considered no different than the ordinary Joe, except for their training.

You're interpreting 'heroic' in a way different to that which was intended. IL PCs are not superhuman. They are a lot better than warriors and experts, though

 

[Nightfall]

While I'm not a fan of Armor as DR or DBs, I can live with it IF it makes combat and fighting more interesting. And with these additions, I'm 100% certain this will be interesting.

 

[mearls]

Well, it's not like mearls is going to come to your house and beat you up if you choose to do something else, you know

I can't yet, but don't think we're not working on the technology!