Iron Lore: Malhavoc's Surprise?

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

How would, if theywould, classeslike the druid, cleric and Bard "transformed" in IL special, did they exist in the book?

Those classes do not exist as part of the default Iron Lore package, no.

Druid and Cleric are a little too magical. So I don't have any concept of how they might change if they were to be translated.

The Bard actually seems to come close to embodying some Iron Lore concepts as it is. The most obvious one being that it gets bonuses based on performing mundane actions in combat and is fairly skill based.

We've yet to see if there truly will be a Charisma based character in Iron Lore. Though the Hunter certainly had some bardish elements in its buffing and there are rumors that the Thief class will be pretty quick witted and political.

I would have loved to have seen a Rhetorician class where you got tokens for talking that you could use to confuse the enemy with sophistry, but I suppose I will have to wait for the web enhancement.

 

[Felon]

We've yet to see if there truly will be a Charisma based character in Iron Lore. Though the Hunter certainly had some bardish elements in its buffing and there are rumors that the Thief class will be pretty quick witted and political.

Well, as far as I can tell, Iron Lore is geared entirely around combat, even moreso than vanilla D&D. Skills are emphasized for their ability to facilitate combat stunts, and I don't think there will be a Charisma-based class like the bard who excels primarily as the face-man and inofrmation gatherer, and in combat is relegated to a support role. The Thief will probably have access to the Charisma skills, but if he's got Sneak Attack dice at every odd level like a rogue, then he'll still be a killing machine.

 

[sword-dancer]

What happened to the tales about the dragon being a massive, clever, hard to kill monster? Who in their right mind stands solo in a field and challenges a dragon? Even in movies that star dragonslayers, it often takes a small army of them. You have to find its lair, you have to find ways to ambush it and limit its abilities, and the whole time you are doing that, the beast is outthinking you. Lets face it, dragons in DnD are very intelligent creatures, they arent going to sit around and let you trap it..

Éxactly thats`s what Sigurd/Siegfried did with Fafnir or Hurin with the forst Daraggon of Middleearth.
Lay an trap and stake the creature with his sword.

Dietrich von Bern and a few Heroes his Heroes , Arthurs Men (Iwein the Knight with the Lion for Example) don`t used traps they cutted it right down where it stands.

In one Fantasy Story(Dragondoom), the Heroes tricked the frostwyrm into the sunlight, The Ban of the Sun did the rest, in another(The Black Dragon) a few witchpoisoned Spears, an ambush and a battle axe did the job.
Conan killed a T-Rex with an poisoned Improvised Spear, or the victim of the dragon poisoned himself...

It`s a reason the creatures called dragons and not unbeatable, invincible Beings.

If it bleeds it could be killed.

 

[sword-dancer]

Druid and Cleric are a little too magical. So I don't have any concept of how they might change if they were to be translated..

I´ve seen clerics and druids, spellcasting or not, in systems and settings who were much less magical, than I expected to see from IL.

I was interested in how their role(social, spiritual) was (if) transferred to Iron Lore, only sendary in their Spell and other Powers.

 

[sword-dancer]

There's two facets to this issue:

1. The vast majority of monsters don't have DR, just like in D&D. So, a light, low-damage but many attacks fighter works pretty much the same in IL as in D&D..

Principial I don`t like if principal different ruleset is used for PCs and NPCs.

For what it`s worth

2. It makes sense to me that a warrior who uses a light, fast, agile weapon would strike with more accuracy than one with a big sword.

This is a very special flavor, but realistically,No, not the last AFAIK, the skill with the weapon is what mattters, Nothing else, except of the defence of the enemy.

I see a warrior with a rapier as picking out gaps between a foe's armor, or an archer taking aim and hitting the space between two plates. So, you can expect to see that in the rules

Yes, only that it`s at bes realistically near impossible with an rapier, with the possible exception of the face(Helm without visor) or the eyeslits.
The only story i read this kind of feat was in a Solomon Kane Story who this Master Bladesmen attacked the eye of his adversaries.
Realistically I would also hope to hit the plate at the perfect arc with enough power, and that at a very near range.

OTOH realistic is only a matter in RPGs who´ve this as an part of their product, by every other I´m perfect they meet their intended genre with fitting and good playable rules.

my Halfpenny.

 

[Particle_Man]

How would, if theywould, classeslike the druid, cleric and Bard "transformed" in IL special, did they exist in the book?

Bard, Ranger --> Hunter.

Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Sorceror, any other primary spellcaster --> Arcanist.

Ranger, Fighter --> Archer

Barbarian --> Berserker (but I hope they change Rage so that you don't have to keep track of hit points that go away when the rage ends).

Fighter --> Armiger

Fighter, Assassin --> Executioner

Ranger, Fighter --> Harrier

Fighter --> Man-at-Arms

Fighter --> Weapon Master

Rogue --> Thief

Paladin --> Probably sucks to be you. Possibly an Arcanist/Armiger multi-class?

Monk --> Probably sucks to be you. Possibly Weapon Master (unarmed) or Harrier. But maybe a web enhancement will create a "martial artist" class.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

In those terms a Paladin might very well be simply an Armiger with the appropriate traits, feats, and one or two levels of arcanist.

 

[SixFootGnome]

I was interested in how their role(social, spiritual) was (if) transferred to Iron Lore, only sendary in their Spell and other Powers.

If you poke around for the next older batch of web teasers (links earlier in this thread, too!) you'll see a teaser on Traits. Every character gets two to distinguish them, and they can be physical, mental, or background traits. Among the sample traits is one that makes you a ranking member of the clergy, with certain training and benefits.

Honestly, I'd say that this handles their social role pretty sufficiently. Anyone might be a member of the clergy, and that wouldn't necessarily translate to being a hospitalier or crusader or spellcaster or anything else specific aside from being a member of the clergy.

That said, if you weren't concerned with the spells part of magic, DnD classes are supposed to be convertable to IL. You'd take away their ability to use *magic items* and then make certain stock conversions to go from the basic DnD format and assumptions to those of Iron Lore. One of those would be to change their HD to look more like the system shown with the Hunter. Saves also are supposed to change, but we have no clear idea how that works yet since the Hunter teaser omitted saves. *That may mean that saves aren't directly/solely class-based*

 

[SixFootGnome]

Class conversions

I can't say that I entirely get the urge to do this class equivilency exercises. I think that a paladin would probably be (pick class) plus (applicable traits) plus (roleplay). That could mean that he's a berserker who flies into a righteous fury, or an armiger who defends the weak, or a member of the clergy of the Lord of Swords sworn to use his for the cause of light, or...

In other words, paladin in roleplay. I wouldn't fixate on looking for an IL combination of classes to reconstitute the mechanical abilities of a DnD class. You'll probably be better served by doing a conversion of the paladin class to IL using the guidelines for that which are supposed to be there if you can't come up with any better mechanical skeleton to put the paladin-roleplay onto.

 

[A'koss]

The next design diary is also up:

http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?designdiary_mmearls_13

I do like the idea that the need to fill a role in the group is largely unnecessary in IL and that even solo adventures are much more feasible (no need for magical healing/rogues for trapfinding...).

A'koss.