Irritating Munchkin tricks your Players try to argue.

[Lucius Foxhound]

Dare I ask.

What does this have to do with anything?

I think what Tom's trying to say is that there's times when a player purposefully tries to twist the rules so that he can do whatever he wants...

... and there are times when crappy DMs don't plan ahead very well and are forced to break the rules to stop players from winning.

 

[Ukyo the undead]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Irritating Munchkin tricks your Players try to argue.

The character in question has boots of springing and striding. If I make jumping an option he would get the spell of easy. Of course I completely believe you cannot cast a spell while jumping like that. Too little time in the air and too easy to screw yourself up.

Well, i think a wiz in your campaign will be in serious trouble casting an feather fall when falling in an abyss...

Honestly, I this situaion looks like more as if the Dm was upset because the player was about to ruin an NPC great escape... but since i dont know how annoying is the wiz player, i not sure.

 

[Negative Zero]

Dare I ask.

What does this have to do with anything?

i think it has to do with calling you out. after reading this thread, it seems to me that you're one of those "DM vs Player" type of DMs, who forget that the Player Characters are supposed to be the stars of your lil story.

there was nothing at all wrong with what your wiz player wanted to do. shame on you for not allowing it at all. and even more shame for accusing him of munchkinism for it.

~NegZ

 

[Orias]

Funny how DMs can be munchkins too...

Player (Rog/Wiz): I open the door.
DM (Dungeon Munchkin): It's locked.
Player: I pick the lock (rolls D20).
DM: Sorry, you fail. It's a DC48 lock.
Player: I cast knock.
DM: The spell doesn't work...for some reason.
Player: We all work together to bash down the door.
DM: The door's too small for more than one person to force it.
Player: (suggests creative spell/skill/ability use that will certainly open the "stuck" door)
DM: You...you...MUNCHKIN!

Thank you! I hate munchkin DMs! Why does everything need to rules lawyered? So it's a few feet, & it's BURNING HANDS for sake! Either have the character do some good explanation to how you prepares the spell & leaps into the air casting the spell, blasting the monster, or have an interesting description of how the sorceror casts the spell & barely misses, but the creature recoils from the heat & prepares to strike at it's assailant. D&D is supposed to be about having fun & making stories, not exact measurements. Unfortunately not many people understand this, & D&D in essence becomes a video-game stat based stale adventure.

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

Thank you! I hate munchkin DMs! Why does everything need to rules lawyered? So it's a few feet, & it's BURNING HANDS for sake! Either have the character do some good explanation to how you prepares the spell & leaps into the air casting the spell, blasting the monster, or have an interesting description of how the sorceror casts the spell & barely misses, but the creature recoils from the heat & prepares to strike at it's assailant. D&D is supposed to be about having fun & making stories, not exact measurements. Unfortunately not many people understand this, & D&D in essence becomes a video-game stat based stale adventure.

Orias, you rock. Your S.H.I.N.Y. membership card is in the mail.

 

[drnuncheon]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Irritating Munchkin tricks your Players try to argue.

Uh, because jumping isn't a move?

It sure is.

If you look at the Jump skill description, you'll see that 'distance moved by jumping is counted against maximum movement in a round normally'. Sounds like a move to me.

Or are you suggesting my character with Jump +56 (Boots of S&S, Ring of Jumping, ranks & str) can leap 31 feet from a standing start and still get in his full attack (since jumping isn't a move)? Cos if you are, well, call me Springheel Jack.

J

 

[Quasqueton]

So a 10'-range burning hands can reach 12' if the character leans/reaches/jumps. Can it reach 13'? 14'?

How about if the hanging character lifted his feet a bit? Now instead of 12' he is 14' away.

How much of the target do the flames have to touch to be considered "in range". Can catching the target's feet be enough? Lower legs?

I too would have said "no" to reaching the target in this situation. And I'd expect the players to let it go and not push the argument. I'd give them the same benefit of the "doubt" when the tables were turned. (And a DM can turn the tables much more often than the players.)

This is like when a fireball's radius covers half the square and the player wants to argue that the enemy should be fully effected, or the friend should be considered at the other side of the square.

Or casting a fireball above the head of a target and saying that the bottom of the sphere should hit the (medium-sized) target's head, but not the heads of the friendlies surrounding the target.

Or like when a caster in melee range wants to say he is at the edge of a square and argues that the fighter can't reach him for a AoO. Then of course he stands up to demonstrate how a fighter can't really reach the 7.5' (from the middle of one square to the far side of the threatened square).

This is all why I make sure that ledges and falls and such are always in full increments of 10'. So no one will argue that an 27' fall should be rounded down to 2d6.

Quasqueton

 

[JacktheRabbit]

i think it has to do with calling you out. after reading this thread, it seems to me that you're one of those "DM vs Player" type of DMs, who forget that the Player Characters are supposed to be the stars of your lil story.

there was nothing at all wrong with what your wiz player wanted to do. shame on you for not allowing it at all. and even more shame for accusing him of munchkinism for it.

~NegZ

Well Tom is a well known brain dead twit so I figured his comments were along those lines. If you want to be stupid and join him then go ahead.

But before you comment further read some of the freaking books so you know what they hell you are talking about.

 

[Numion]

Well, actually, they do.

Suppose a fighter is in the center of his 5' square. Technically, if he has 10' reach, he should not be able to hit anything farther away than the center of two squares away.

However, that's not the way 3E works. By the rules, he can hit something standing twelve feet away -- that is, something standing at the far end of the square, two squares away from him.

No doubt he's doing that by reaching with his hands out .

I don't know where you're getting this - the rules talk about feet, not squares. It would be strange if some imaginary lines, that really don't exist for the characters but are just a help in visualising the gamem, lengthened characters reach.

If the had meant that 10ft reach really is 12ft reach, why didn't they write it so in the first place?

EDIT: the real problem in your example is that you go from feet to squares and back to feet. When you do that, funky things start to happen, and all the ranges will get mroe fuzzy.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Thank you! I hate munchkin DMs! Why does everything need to rules lawyered? So it's a few feet, & it's BURNING HANDS for sake! Either have the character do some good explanation to how you prepares the spell & leaps into the air casting the spell, blasting the monster, or have an interesting description of how the sorceror casts the spell & barely misses, but the creature recoils from the heat & prepares to strike at it's assailant. D&D is supposed to be about having fun & making stories, not exact measurements. Unfortunately not many people understand this, & D&D in essence becomes a video-game stat based stale adventure.

It DIDNT work specifically because she knew about the spell and she moved into that area specifically so that the caster could not reach her with it.

So now I should use some lame-brained (I stick my hands over my head) explanation for the sorcerer to get greater effect out of the spell than he should?

By all rights the dumb twit should have been toasted since the fool ran well ahead of the party to begin with and ended up facing a 7th level female drow cleric all by his 5th level sorcerer lonesome.

So don't give me any of your useless puke over how the game should be run.