Irritating Munchkin tricks your Players try to argue.

[JacktheRabbit]

I'll concede that this guy is a dick if you concede that this particular act really wasn't that munchkin at all .

Agreed. I have the advantage here of seeing all of his actions as a whole and taking them as a whole. You see one action which by itself isnt that bad.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Seriously, I don't think you are winning any friends or support here. That was uncalled for.

If you are really bored go back and check out some of the other gems he has posted in topics I started or as replies to my comments in other threads.

He likes to think he is funny and be a dick at the same time. So when it comes to him I could care less if I am making any friends.

 

[La Bete]

If you are really bored.... etc.

err perhaps true, but it still doesnt help make your arguement. Ironically i mostly agree with your first part of your argument - if you are using square-based combat, then everything is done is squares - so burning hands covers up to two squares away. Period. If you are doing all your combat in feet, then its a different story.

However, I wouldnt have had that much of a problem with the guy trying a jump check, if he had thought of it. Hell, ive had a fighter jump 4ft up to attack a chain overhead (no spring attack needed , letter of the rules yes, but c'mon).

personally it just sounds like youve got a prob with the player, not with his actions.

 

[Negative Zero]

wow, all this happened between work and home? serves me right for not coming straight home to check on the Boards!

Well Tom is a well known brain dead twit so I figured his comments were along those lines. If you want to be stupid and join him then go ahead.

But before you comment further read some of the freaking books so you know what they hell you are talking about.

it always amazes me to see people (suposedly adult people) using this type of sad 5-yr-old name calling in support of their arguments. if you were offended by anything i said, then perhaps you're guilty of it. if (not the use if the "if") you're not, then why on earth are you so offended by it that you feel the need to attack people personally? (as i recall, i did say that it "seems" that you were "x" way.)

that you could say:

"By all rights the dumb twit should have been toasted since the fool ran well ahead of the party to begin with and ended up facing a 7th level female drow cleric all by his 5th level sorcerer lonesome."

shows me that you have no respect at all, much less love for at least this one of your players. and that's a shame. but maybe you should try to keep things in perspective and approach the root of your problem, (that being a conflicting gaming style) as opposed to name calling attacking the very people whose opinion you asked for.

(and before you get all high and mighty about not asking for opinions, that is exactly what you do when you start a public discussion, or offer your own comments in a public forum.)

now, about all of this talk about ranges and feet vs squares. pay attention and you'll find that practically all ranges are measured in (5ft) squares and start at the outside of your own 5ft square. e.g. fighter with 5ft reach may affect anything up to 5 feet away from the outside of the 5ft square he's standing in.

therefore, if an opponent is 12 feet above you, the area of effect of a burning hands spell, if fired upwards, starts 5 feet off the ground, leaving 7 feet of distance between point of origin and target. and is therefore affected by said spell.

nice, simple and by the rules.

what's really sad is the munchkin DM who's not a big enough man to allow his players to get away with something he didn't think of.

now Doc M says: "It DIDNT work specifically because she knew about the spell and she moved into that area specifically so that the caster could not reach her with it." and that begs the questions: does said opponent know of this band of adventurers coming after her? how much research has she done on them? does she know their M.O.? does she know that they're coming after her now!? in other words, why was she prepared for that specific tactic? is the DM guilty of meta-gaming too?

just a thought.

~NegZ

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

Gotta say... can you imagine having Dr. M as your DM? You may want to reread the early parts of the DMG. They teach a lot about how to run a good game... a lot of people skip it, but it's pretty good stuff. Same with the "Adventuring" chapter in the PHB for players. Get back to basics!

Oh, and then reread the rules as well...

 

[beldar1215]

"I should know how far my character can jump"
Argued with the DM for 10 mins! Bad DM! Bad!

 

[SamuraiY]

Wow
This is just getting vicious. I dont think the idea is too bad though. I've seen some pretty bad stuff, and this isn't one of 'em.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

wow, all this happened between work and home? serves me right for not coming straight home to check on the Boards!



it always amazes me to see people (suposedly adult people) using this type of sad 5-yr-old name calling in support of their arguments. if you were offended by anything i said, then perhaps you're guilty of it. if (not the use if the "if") you're not, then why on earth are you so offended by it that you feel the need to attack people personally? (as i recall, i did say that it "seems" that you were "x" way.)

that you could say: shows me that you have no respect at all, much less love for at least this one of your players. and that's a shame. but maybe you should try to keep things in perspective and approach the root of your problem, (that being a conflicting gaming style) as opposed to name calling attacking the very people whose opinion you asked for.

(and before you get all high and mighty about not asking for opinions, that is exactly what you do when you start a public discussion, or offer your own comments in a public forum.)

now, about all of this talk about ranges and feet vs squares. pay attention and you'll find that practically all ranges are measured in (5ft) squares and start at the outside of your own 5ft square. e.g. fighter with 5ft reach may affect anything up to 5 feet away from the outside of the 5ft square he's standing in.

therefore, if an opponent is 12 feet above you, the area of effect of a burning hands spell, if fired upwards, starts 5 feet off the ground, leaving 7 feet of distance between point of origin and target. and is therefore affected by said spell.

nice, simple and by the rules.

what's really sad is the munchkin DM who's not a big enough man to allow his players to get away with something he didn't think of.

now Doc M says: "It DIDNT work specifically because she knew about the spell and she moved into that area specifically so that the caster could not reach her with it." and that begs the questions: does said opponent know of this band of adventurers coming after her? how much research has she done on them? does she know their M.O.? does she know that they're coming after her now!? in other words, why was she prepared for that specific tactic? is the DM guilty of meta-gaming too?

just a thought.

~NegZ

Yep, its total Dm meta-knowledge when the Drow Cleric acts to avoid a spell she watched cast by the sorcerer more than once only 5 minutes before.

Oh wait you didnt know tha tfact?

Oh you are right you didnt. So I guess your entire post is based on your assumptions as you talk out of you ass?

Yep, thought so.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Gotta say... can you imagine having Dr. M as your DM? You may want to reread the early parts of the DMG. They teach a lot about how to run a good game... a lot of people skip it, but it's pretty good stuff. Same with the "Adventuring" chapter in the PHB for players. Get back to basics!

Oh, and then reread the rules as well...

I am still waiting to hear what rule I broke? Or what part of having a fun adventure. I am supposed to have fun as well. in fact EVERYONE is supposed to have fun and the quickest way for that to NOT happen is for the DM to allow one player to get away with stuff all the time. Very quickly the other players get irritated as they dont know where the line is drawn. What rules are real and which arent?

I only look for consistency. The rules very clearly say that Burning Hands scorches targets in a arc up to 10 feet away. Clear simple and to the point. If the sorcerer wanted to get close enough to cast the spell them hell maybe he should have jumped onto the table 3 feet away or grabbed the fighters potion of spider climb. Then he could have easily accomplished it without any bizarre twisting of the rules.

Why is rules twisting bad?

Simple. Because the first time the DM decides that an NPC sorcerer foe wants to "extend" his arms to get some extra range on his Burning Hands spell most players (especially ones like the guy that runs this sorcerer) scream like raped pigs about how you are abusing the rules and cheating.

So its better off the keep the rules consistent and fair. Then there is no grey area and no arguing over doing things because Bob could do something last week outside the rules so I should be able to do the same or vice versa.

 

[Tewligan]

Well, I'm with the minority here in thinking that the spell was out of range. The range is 10' not "10ish". Not 10'+arm length. If the encounter breaks down into working out the height of the caster, arm length, target height, etc. in an effort to squeeze in that extra foot or two of range, then pretty soon every encounter is going to be second-guessed and lawyered out because hey, it worked last time. Personally, I'd rather have my character try and narrowly fail, rather than get bogged down in arguing over measurements for 15 minutes in the hopes of getting my way.

Oh, and I wonder if it's possible to carry this thread on without insinuations that people don't know how to run a fun game, are power-mad DM's, are munchkins and/or idiots, and so on. I suspect that it's too late, and this thread will soon go to Closed Thread Heaven, but it might be something to keep in mind for future threads. Cripes, people, I think we're all either adults or close enough to it to know how to be civil. I'd put one of those angry emoticons here if I didn't hate them so much.