Irritating Munchkin tricks your Players try to argue.

[Ukyo the undead]

Stop it man

DocMoriart, stop this nonsense.

You don´t like the player, period.


Kick him out, or leave the group.


But, please, don´t start a rant and when a lot of people disagree with you, begin using the "i know the player and know that he is a bastard munchukin and metagamer" aproach.

 

[Myrddyn]

Without passing judgement on either views.. Here is how I would have probably handled it :

Ceiling is 18ft high... so in 'cube' terms there are 4x 5' cubes between ground and ceiling.

For me, Medium-sized PC wizard constitutes, for easy gaming purposes, 2x 5' cubes vertically and 1x 5' cube horizontally.. and so he can reach anything in 10' range, which is 2x 5' cubes, away from him with his burning hands spell... i.e. anything up to 20ft from ground level.

So I would have allowed this... even if this enemy was flat-bellied against the ceiling...

( By the same logics you could rule that a M-sized character only takes up one 5' cube, which would mean his enemy was out of range... Whichever way is fine I guess, as long as the rule is kept consequent throughout your game...)

Just my 2 cents... from a very n00b DM.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I think what it really boils down to is:

"Can someone jump as a 5-ft. step?"

I'd say sure. Hopping straight up would be basically like taking a 5-ft. step.

To put it all in nice, even 5-ft. increments:

1) The caster is medium-sized and so occupies basically one 5-ft. cube, and threatens the area 5 ft. around that.

2) Burning Hands can reach a total of 10 ft. from the caster themeslves (and cannot be extended to the caster's reach). Even a Giant casting Burning Hands can't start the spell at the end of his fingertips...the magical energy goes out 10 ft. from the point of origin (the caster) and stops.

3) The enemy in question moved onto the cieling, effectively 15 ft. beyond the caster. The caster can "reach" 5 ft. beyond their own cube. The Burning Hands spell affects that reach, and 5 ft. beyond that. So they can't reach the enemy.

So, right now, the caster can't hit the enemy. It'd be the same thing as if the enemy was 15' away form the caster on the ground. The spell's range is one increment too short.

BUT

As part of her turn, the spellcaster can make a 5-ft. step, which puts the enemy within range. Be it a reaching out with hands, be it a slight hop, be it a home-base slide, be it a bit of a shuffle, be it standing on tip-toes, the spellcaster can adjust her position by 5 ft. to hit the creature.

Of course, as a DM, you're free to rule that a slight vertical hop can't be made as a 5-ft. step. But in this case, I'd say you were being unneessecarily harsh.

I'd say a 5' step can be made vertically, too.

Oh, and for T....jeeze, people, enough petty name-calling....

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Re: Stop it man

What you suggest might work. The sorcerer though had already made a move across the room.

Would you allow?

1. A twenty foot move across a room.

2. Jump up 5' step.

3. Cast Burning Hands

4. Target and envelope foe at very top of jump.

All in one round of 6 second action?


--------------------

Also to respond to another person who commented. I clearly told the player there was 12 feet between him and the cleric standing on the ceiling. Since she is upside down that means her head is 12 feet from his head.

12 feet is not 10 feet so a 10 foot ranged Burning Hands is going to not reach her.

 

[Dinkeldog]

We're all going to be very nice to one another now and not call one another names any more.

 

[Ukyo the undead]

I don´t like sarcasm. Treat me with respect, and i will do the same.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Re: Re: Stop it man

What you suggest might work. The sorcerer though had already made a move across the room.

Would you allow?

1. A twenty foot move across a room.

2. Jump up 5' step.

3. Cast Burning Hands

4. Target and envelope foe at very top of jump.

All in one round of 6 second action?

It depends on the sorcerer's base move. If a 30' move, I would most likely allow the move and jump as a single move-equivalent action and then allow the casting at the top. You can't cast burning hands and then move at all--it's not a touch spell. That means that the caster should be subject to any AoOs for spellcasting in a threatened area.

 

[I'm A Banana]

If the caster already moved, then I would ask for a Jump check, since the 5' step would basically be part of the move itself (I'd let it be a running jump...20' is enough for a charge, so it shuold probably be okay). IF they closed the distance, I'd allow it to hit the guy.

If you wanna get tough on 'em, I don't think a Concentration check would be too out of order for such a situation (DC of about 15 + spell level, maybe upped if you think it's too low).

But there's my plan. It's an iffy enough situation that I wouldn't be surprised if people would do it differently...

Odd question I guess...can you cast a spell as you jump? I'd say yeah. Others, maybe not.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Re: Re: Re: Stop it man

It depends on the sorcerer's base move. If a 30' move, I would most likely allow the move and jump as a single move-equivalent action and then allow the casting at the top. You can't cast burning hands and then move at all--it's not a touch spell. That means that the caster should be subject to any AoOs for spellcasting in a threatened area.

If he had thought of that I might have considered it though I dont like the idea of casting while jumping up in the air at just the right moment.

Question. Would you have let him do all this and cast defensively too? The sorcerer had boots of springing and striding. If he had jumped he would have easily jumped high enough to blast her and at the same time completely put himself in smack distance to the drow cleric in question.

 

[La Bete]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Stop it man

Question. Would you have let him do all this and cast defensively too?

dont know about you guys, but i'd say no. Can you imagine it?

runrunrunrun... leap... INCOMING!!!...feel my burning wrath! Zap!.... whoah... fallling...aahhhhh... whew! magic boots.

Also, depending on how high he jumped, the concentration check might be even more difficult - he might almost moosh himself on the ceiling. Hell, I'd pay to see that.