Philotomy Jurament
First Post
Nah, it's always been that way. 
Is 3.5e beginning to suffer from rules bloat?
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ShinHakkaider
Hero
Kamikaze Midget said:Y'know who's suffering from rules bloat?
Your Mom.
OH SNAP!!!
Crothian
First Post
Philotomy Jurament said:Nah, it's always been that way.
Not really. 1e had very few rules after the core game. 2e on the other hand had tons. 3e have very few new rules that come out. But people seem to confuse new options for rules. Feats and prestige classes are not rules.
Glyfair
Explorer
Crothian said:
I agree with this as well.
However, often feats and classes end up creating entire new rules classes (tactical feats, divine feats, reserve feats). Yes, you can pick and choose. However, my concern is the character generator developers. Every time a new set of rules come out that affect character generation they have to figure a way to get their program to handle it.
If we ever want to have a quality character generator, we need a stable set of rules types. At the very least we need game designers to consider the computer programmers needs when designing their new rules (not at the top if the steps, but somewhere in the middle).
johnnype
First Post
Option bloat is a bit of an oxymoron isn't it? That said I understand where the original poster is coming from and certainly sympathize with what he's trying to say although my position on the subject has changed (and is continuing to change) as it becomes more of a discussion topic on this and other forums. In the end we have to understand that WotC is only providing us with what we ask for: more options. The problem is that, for some time now, I've found many of their supplements uninspired and downright boring. I can't tell you the amount of times I've started reading a new supplement only to shelve it after reviewing it's contents. There are many reasons for this. Some of them superficial (insipid artwork, presentation and/or writing) and others having to do with the crunch itself (primarily a lack of NEED for the rules presented or they just plain feel unbalanced).
Ultimately I'm all for choice but would much rather have the base rules be a bit more modular and, as such, less in need of endless expansion. In my mind I have this silly idea of viable single-level base and prestige classes, feats available every level for all classes, and an endless amount of templates. Modularity is a wonderful thing and is a great strength of D&D, I just don't think they took it far enough. Then again I'm not a rules designer so what do I know?
I'm drifting a bit so to get back on topic let me reiterate that I sympathize with the original post although I don't know that calling it rules bloat is the best way of putting it.
Ultimately I'm all for choice but would much rather have the base rules be a bit more modular and, as such, less in need of endless expansion. In my mind I have this silly idea of viable single-level base and prestige classes, feats available every level for all classes, and an endless amount of templates. Modularity is a wonderful thing and is a great strength of D&D, I just don't think they took it far enough. Then again I'm not a rules designer so what do I know?
I'm drifting a bit so to get back on topic let me reiterate that I sympathize with the original post although I don't know that calling it rules bloat is the best way of putting it.
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I don't think the optional materials are a problem.
The core rules are the problem.
There are too many modifiers from too many different stackable spells/items once the characters reach mid-level. This results in too much bookkeeping that certain people, like me, find distracting. Not complex math by any means, just unnecessary math.
Also, the game suffers from a scaling problem at around 11th level (or so). It goes from swords-and-sorcery to Kirby-esque comic book superheroics (or mythology, if you prefer to put a classier spin on it), both rapidly and unevenly (granted, this problem's been around since AD&D).
I'd argue that most of the options work more-or-less fine at low-to-mid levels, while at high levels even the basic game gets thorny.
The core rules are the problem.
There are too many modifiers from too many different stackable spells/items once the characters reach mid-level. This results in too much bookkeeping that certain people, like me, find distracting. Not complex math by any means, just unnecessary math.
Also, the game suffers from a scaling problem at around 11th level (or so). It goes from swords-and-sorcery to Kirby-esque comic book superheroics (or mythology, if you prefer to put a classier spin on it), both rapidly and unevenly (granted, this problem's been around since AD&D).
I'd argue that most of the options work more-or-less fine at low-to-mid levels, while at high levels even the basic game gets thorny.
Voadam
Legend
Crothian said:
And I didn't say you said there were no new rules.
I just disagree that there are very few rules in 1e outside of the the core 3 books. Social status, advancing stats, weapon specialization, cantrips, comeliness, nonweapon proficiencies, honor, martial arts, etc. seem like a sizeable set of rule expansions, before you even get into things like battlesystem, critical hits etc.Similar Threads
