Is a Wizard a better buffer then a cleric?

[Bad Paper]

You do have a heart of gold! Thank you for patiently explaining that, but...

He's referring to a wizard (with Scribe Scroll) collaborating with a cleric (who provides the spells and counts as the scroll's creator, so that he can use them) to create divine scrolls. Which, by the rules, is completely acceptable.

...I am aware of Sean's intent. Your sarcasm-meter is broken. This is not the thread to discuss this particular topic, but let us agree to disagree: the language that I quoted from the rules is the language I use to adjudicate Scribe Scroll. IMG, Scribe Scroll is not Take Dictation. The owner of the feat must be the one with the spell in his head.

This is why Sean's cleric took Scribe Scroll, and he is upset that the druid would also have to take SS if she wanted to scribe scrolls. Since her last feat was Empower Spell, I take it that she has better things to do. (Oh, and she gets loooots of mileage out of Craft Magic Arms and Armor anyway, and the wizard is always busy with his spellbook or his own scrolls or Craft Woundrous Item or Forge Ring, etc...)

It's not really an issue for our campaign. It's just the spirit of the thing that upsets the donkey cart.

 

[Henry]

Owls Wisdom is a +4 Enhancement, like all the other 2nd lvl stat buffs..
And it's not druid only.
EDIT:Are you talking about a dif spell??

Owl's insight is a 5th level druid-only spell from Spell Compendium that gives the target a (+1 per 2 Druid levels) insight bonus that lasts for an hour. There's no cap, and since it's insight it stacks with enhancement bonuses.

Cast that before going into hostile territory, and the clerics and monks will love you forever. A 20th level druid casting that on a cleric or druid and their spell save DCs will be FIVE points higher... and a monk will have 5 more points of AC!

In a recent high level game, my 24th level druid cast that spell on the cleric in the party, who happened to have a monk's belt... But that's an argument for another thread.

 

[Henry]

One other suite of Clerical boosts just surfaced in my mind -- the Fortunate Fate and Death pact spells. Those two are what I'd call the ultimate "buff" spells -- enemy strikes you down? GET RIGHT BACK UP AGAIN! It's best on pure fighter-types, because usually resetting them to full hit points is essentially resetting them back to full strength.

 

[Mistwell]

Defensively, I'd say you're correct. With PHB, a 9th-level cleric can add +2 Magic Vestment on armor and shield, plus a +4 deflection bonus from Shield of Faith, and with the Plant domain +4 natural armor enhancement from Barkskin. That's +12 AC.

The wizard can't give any of these bonus types except for deflection (and then only against certain alignments). A wizard can give a huge natural armor bonus with Polymorph, as well as providing a tremendous boost in offensive capability, but that spell is extremely troublesome.

Except when you expand the spell list to include the Spell Compendium, which the OP did.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Except when you expand the spell list to include the Spell Compendium, which the OP did.

I know. Interesting. SC seems to GREATLY increase the power of casters by increasing versatility. PHB divided up spells so that there were many things wizards couldn't do (or sub-sets, like things the conjuration school couldn't do) and many things clerics couldn't do.

 

[satori01]

Divine buffers are the shiz naz over Arcane Buffers. This is in no small part to the fact that Divine Casters know all of the buff spells on their spell list, and Arcane Buffers will more than likely only know a few...the most generally applicable ones.

With Spell Compendium a Cleric can buff your AC, increase your move speed, Mass Align your Weapon, give everyone Mass Fast Healing, and of course swap out those buff spells for healing if the need arises, or the circumstances change.

 

[Allegro]

Again, I believe most of the spells referenced cost valuable actions in combat. If the buff lasts more then 10 min a level, then it can be cast using non-combat time. While everyone loves a haste or a mass vigor spell, those spells are costing the caster a standard action. Combat standard actions usually seem better spent casting offensive, healing, or crowd control spells. Barkskin and magic vestments are both nice spells because they last more then one combat. In my original post the buffs were giving +1,+2,+2,+3 (assuming only a +1 enchant originally on the weapon) or +8 as an attack bonus. I can think of more then one tank build that would turn that into significant amounts of damage per turn. Can a cleric match this +8 attack bonus at 12th level for more then 10 minutes a level for another character?

 

[Sigurd]

You have to specify the limitations of your wizard. A wizard limited to the PHB is a completely different class than one with access to the broader spell base.

Even with everything I still think Clerics are better buffers (And probably more 'powerful' spellcasters).


S