Is Animating Dead Evil?

[Blackjack]

Does BlackJack win the bet with a Nazi reference in Post 6? What does he win?

Look, there's a reason I said "all-too-canonical", to cut this off at the pass. I gotcher Godwin's Law right here.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Wow... my last post was more than a little OT... whoops

The D&D 3E rules state:

• Animating Undead is evil (Evil descriptor in spell)
• Not all undead are evil (Skeletons, Ghosts, Zombies - no official errata for the MM yet)
• All undead will be detected as evil by the spell Detect Evil
• How undead interact with Protection from Evil is unclear, either similar to Detect Evil or by alignment.

Would all undead detect as evil (even though they may not be) because of the Negative energies that power them? That would be my interpretation. By extension of that, undead that weren't evil wouldn't be affected by Protection from Evil.

 

[Ziggy]

Wow... my last post was more than a little OT... whoops

Well, that depends on what you think the topic is

The tread has a rules discussion mixed with a moral discussion (shudder) mixed with a discussion on PCat's campaign. You just picked a different set of sub-topics.....

Would all undead detect as evil (even though they may not be) because of the Negative energies that power them? That would be my interpretation. By extension of that, undead that weren't evil wouldn't be affected by Protection from Evil.

That is a reasonable explanation, but then Detect and Protection is not symmetrical (something I prefer). But YMMV.

.Ziggy

 

[DoctorB]

Though conjuring undead is an evil act, that does not necessarily mean the product of that spell is evil.

(I agree though that the reason skeletons and zombies are neutral in the MM is that they don't have enough intelligence to be evil).

The question I have for PC and for KidC is whether the negative material plane is inherently evil. If it is not, then undead do not have to be evil even though the act of calling them is.

my 2cp worth.

 

[Humanophile]

Just a nitpick...

According to WOTC and their new skeleton/zombie templates, unintelligent undead are considered evil. Not how I'd play it, but the rules are there.

 

[bret]

I think there are other cases of non-evil undead.

Revenants (undead who feel a strong need to complete some task) would not have to be evil. Examples from cinema/TV would include The Crow.

These are people who simply could not rest because there was some task that they strongly believed they needed to finish. Until that task is complete, the spirit will not rest.

To take another example from cinema, the Knight from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Was he still really living, or was he in an undead state?

The question of if undead have to be evil depends heavily on the campaign setting. Strictly house rules as far as I'm concerned. I can easily see where a GM would rule that all Vampires are evil while some Liches may not be.

 

[Jasperak]

I have been doing some research on the positive/negative material planes for a new class and no where did I see anything mentioning alignments. Quite the contrary, pg.66 Manual of the planes states that the inner planes are "Mildly Neutral-Aligned." Therefore, in this case I would think that whatever powers the undead is neither good nor evil.

This would be similar to oxygen. Oxygen powers our lives and can be used for good or evil. Oxygen powered Hitler, Mother Teresa, and all those little puppies out there. Is oxygen good or evil?

Now the act of animating a corpse may be evil. But those creations do not always "act" evil. Think of the Necromancer that doesn't wish to waste an unseen servant spell, so he creates a skeleton that he orders to clean his room. At which point would the detect evil work?

Since the skeleton is powered by a "neutral" energy and is acting in a "neutral" manner, there is nothing that tells me that this skeleton is "evil." Does anyone believe that if something is created in an "evil" way that that creation is evil? What about all those bastards out there, people born of sin by an adulter? Are they evil because they were created in an evil manner?

It all seems to boil down to the specific beliefs and morals in the specific campaign world. If someone animates skeletons to defend a beseiged city, attacked by "evil" orcs. Are those skeletons evil.

Anything dealing with alignment in D&D is purely subjective despite what the rules say. The only way an "evil" descriptor can be attributed to a rule function is in a moral sense, which by its nature is subjective.

Now if somewhere along the way the negative energy plane becomes "evil" fine, then I would probably say that all undead are evil. But until that time I will play my ECL +5 Zombie as Chaotic Good, thank you.
[He is really a nice guy; he just doesn't believe in following laws. I mean what are they gonna do, kill him?]

 

[RaZZer99]

Reanimating the corpses of fallen comrades and infusing them with the stuff of the Negative Material

Hey, its not like the Postive Energy Plane is so much better than the Negative. It does blow you up into yummy gibblets if you loiter around too long

I personally hate when spells are labelled evil or good. Zombies and Skeletons are neutral in alignment after all.

 

[Ancalagon]

Ok, 2 points

IMO, when a body is used as a mindless undead, this stops the soul from being at rest. Hense, having a skeleton do your cleaning is evil because you're denying poor aunt Geraldine the rest and peace of death.

Second of all, try to read the third book from "the death gate cycle", called "fire sea". It deals with a society that uses necromancy as a mean to achieve cheap labor, and the consequences of that.

Ancalagon

 

[Darkness]

If I created something like Sir Ghouleax, I'd make damn sure that he detects as whatever I prefer. There are spells and items for this, after all.

As for undead creatures generally being detected as evil:

PHB, p. 192 (table under the detect evil spell):

Undead creature - HD/2