Is anyone out there terrified of demons/devils IRL?

[WayneLigon]

Probably what ultimately causes civilization to cease, pride, overconfidence and humanocentric belief systems.

Really? I think that's when civilization starts. When we throw out the superstitions of the primitive past and realize that there's nothing out there in the dark that wasn't there when the lights were on. There is no such thing as pride and overconfidence when applied to the general progress of human endeavor. Everything we can do to push back the walls of ignorance is a good thing.

 

[Planesdragon]

However, I think you would be hard-pressed to find that the church's parishioners in the developed world believe their leaders on this subject any more than they follow their doctrines on contraception.

I wager that even in the developed world, there is a significant number of Catholics who follow the church's teachings on contraception. Possibly not a majority, but certainly a significant (more than 25%) ammount. I happen to be related to a few.

Thus, while I do not have enough data to dispute your statement that the majority of Christians worldwide believe in demons as an active agent of evil, I think I can state quite confidently that the majority of Christians in North America and Europe do not believe in demons as active agents of evil in the contemporary world.

While I think we can all agree that the fraction of the Christian (or just religious) population that believes in demons and devils as the flesh-and-bone monsters D&D shows them as is an insignificant minority, I wager that there is a significant ammount of Christians, quite possibly a majority, that does believe in demons as active agents that work through the human subconcious.

EDIT: I see a few more posts have come in while I've been searching through the IPSOS-Reid web archive. A few points:
(a) if you've studied the bible and don't believe it contains contradicitons, nothing I post will help you

I haven't studied the bible as much as I should have, fusangite, but each contradiction I've been pointed to so far has been, as I said, easily logically resolved by allowing for special commands and/or linguistic impercision.

I would love to be proven wrong; I learn more that way.

(d) Planesdragon, I'm agreeing with what you say about demons in scripture but whatever it is you are saying about shellfish I'm not sure; perhaps you could clarify

Sure.

In the old times, God instructed the hebews on kosher dining habits. The vast majority of these actualy provide measurable dietary and agricultural benefits; meat and cheese last longer if they aren't kept together, certain foods provide easy disease if not prepared properly etc.

This is a good example of a law that is intended as a cure for ignorance, rather than a cure for sin. God, AFAIK, has never really cared whether or not His believers eat shellfish--He just doesn't want them to get sick from eating shellfish.

(e) Planesdragon beautifully encapsulates the educated view of demons as expressed by Eriugena and Augustine -- it's a view with which I have no specific quarrel

Thank you. It's always pleasant to learn that I share bits of understanding with great minds, especially when the expression of said understanding is pleasantly accepted.

 

[Planesdragon]

Man, I never dreamed so many folks did believe in the boogeyman.

Bit of an eyeopener really.

I wonder if I should start selling "Anti-Demon Mojos" or whatever. There's got to be a buck in here somewhere

Not really. A good proportion of the folks who believe in demons deal with them either by ignoring them, or by following a routine of prayer and self-reflection.

Even as an atheist, you should be able to appreciate the benefits of focused thought and self-reflection. And as an intelligent person, you should be able to appreciate that other intelligent people can have completely different views than you--after all, some folk love my current president, and others think he's ruining the country.

As for racial superiority--the theorum is logically sound, but the pracitices to test it have been historically flawed and rather tained by the evils done in the name of racial superiority. Quite like socialism, really. (But now I'm getting OT...)

posted by WayneLigon
Really? I think that's when civilization starts. When we throw out the superstitions of the primitive past and realize that there's nothing out there in the dark that wasn't there when the lights were on. There is no such thing as pride and overconfidence when applied to the general progress of human endeavor. Everything we can do to push back the walls of ignorance is a good thing.

You're right, but not how you think.

What is there in the dark is there in the light; ergo, if something is percieved at night, then it must also be present (or at least extant) during the day. We can't see the stars during the day, but that doesn't mean that we're just hallucinating them at night.

Also, pride and overconfidence are traps to watch out for, because no human words for the progress of humanity--they work for the betterment of themselves personally, their family, their social group, their creed, their nation, and their civilization, in that order. Nations, creeds, and persons far too often fall victim to pride and overconfidence--history is littered with cases just like this, and almost all of them could be said to be working for the betterment of humanity.

 

[hellbender]

Really? I think that's when civilization starts. When we throw out the superstitions of the primitive past and realize that there's nothing out there in the dark that wasn't there when the lights were on. There is no such thing as pride and overconfidence when applied to the general progress of human endeavor. Everything we can do to push back the walls of ignorance is a good thing.

Next time I go overseas, down in the jungle, you should come with me. If you make it out a disbeliever, then I may entertain your point of view. Hell, you should camp out a night on the Nez Perce reservation near me. Walking out of that unscathed is sometimes a miracle. I have seen things on the reservation that have caused alcoholics to give up drinking cold turkey, and no science has successfully pulled that stunt off yet. There are many things out there in the darkness that aren't out in the day.

But in fair play, you should retract your 'ignorance' comment. It is true a double standard runs here, but that comment steps on a lot of toes, and people with beliefs should at least get some consideration. When you look around, do you see progress? Do you see humanization? I see dehumanization, people fettered and tethered by a number of elements of various machinations and social engineering. Rather sounds like if there were any real infernal creatures, we are playing right into their hands. And as I stated before, denying something doesn't make it any less real.

hellbender

 

[Dinkeldog]

Closed. Any questions?

No, I didn't think so.