D&D 5E (2014) Is Contagion OP?

[the Jester]

About the only reason I can see is if the DM rules the disease is contagious and you use the spell to start a plague. That's a reasonable interpretation, since it says the disease is "natural." But it's also going well beyond the spell as presented in the PHB. Even if the DMG contains rules for disease and infection, the spell should not require rules from the DMG to be worth using.

Its name is "contagion," after all.

 

[Dausuul]

It's a plot spell, and people are requiring it to be a combat spell. It doesn't have to be. At all.

It's a combat spell because you have to go right up to the target, chant magic words at it, wave your hands around, and poke it. And then it starts making saving throws at the end of its next turn, so it knows whatever you did was nasty. It's about as subtle as a warhammer to the face.

As for the duration being a week--so what? What is that going to do for you? It's not like you can cast it from safety and wait for it to take effect. The touch range means you have to expose yourself to retaliation. And the fact that you have to make an attack roll and the target has to fail a saving throw makes it very difficult to concoct plans around--what if you miss, or the target makes its saves? What if there's a 3rd-level cleric, druid, or bard in the house... or, for that matter, a 5th-level paladin or ranger? Lesser restoration is only 2nd level, and it's a very popular spell.

The only value I can see in "no effect till 3 failed saves" contagion is that, if the DM rules it's infectious, a wizard of less than sterling moral character can cast it on some helpless schmuck and start a plague. But the text doesn't even mention the possibility of infecting others, which makes it very hard to argue that was the intended use.

 

[Falling Icicle]

a wizard of less than sterling moral character can cast it on some helpless schmuck and start a plague.

Sadly, wizards don't even get this spell.

 

[Dausuul]

Sadly, wizards don't even get this spell.

Ha, you are correct; cleric and druid only. (You would think warlocks would get access to it, if only as a "once per day" invocation.)

 

[Sacrosanct]

It's a combat spell because you have to go right up to the target, chant magic words at it, wave your hands around, and poke it. And then it starts making saving throws at the end of its next turn, so it knows whatever you did was nasty. It's about as subtle as a warhammer to the face.

As for the duration being a week--so what? What is that going to do for you? It's not like you can cast it from safety and wait for it to take effect. The touch range means you have to expose yourself to retaliation. And the fact that you have to make an attack roll and the target has to fail a saving throw makes it very difficult to concoct plans around--what if you miss, or the target makes its saves? What if there's a 3rd-level cleric, druid, or bard in the house... or, for that matter, a 5th-level paladin or ranger? Lesser restoration is only 2nd level, and it's a very popular spell.

The only value I can see in "no effect till 3 failed saves" contagion is that, if the DM rules it's infectious, a wizard of less than sterling moral character can cast it on some helpless schmuck and start a plague. But the text doesn't even mention the possibility of infecting others, which makes it very hard to argue that was the intended use.

I'd give you more XP but I can't. This is well said.

 

[Henrix]

Had it required concentration, like Flesh to Stone, I might agree with it being a combat spell.

Now, it doesn't. (Unlike Hold Monster.) That makes it an awful lot more powerful.

 

[Scorpio616]

What part of the spell are you reading to lead you to believe this interpretation?

The spell's level. Most important part of the spell. If the effect reads like it's stronger than the level indicates, then it's obvious it doesn't work like the spell reads.

 

[Paraxis]

The spell's level. Most important part of the spell. If the effect reads like it's stronger than the level indicates, then it's obvious it doesn't work like the spell reads.

The only way contagion is even close to be more powerful to other save or suck/die spells is how it interacts with the cheesy legendary monster resistance ability.

Normal non legendary monster much more effective to use a 4th level polymorph spell on them and change them to say a fish, so they die from suffocation, there is only one save they have to fail.

Now a legendary monster he just ignores polymorph into fish and keeps killing you for thinking about it, the issue is in this one case, this one spell has an exploit where it shuts down and stun locks the legendary monster and makes him trivial.

I say that is not a problem with the spell, or the level of the spell, but legendary monsters.

 

[jadrax]

More grist for the mill.

Eric Wykoff @edge2054
@JeremyECrawford @mikemearls Do the effects of Contagion start immediately or after the three saves are failed?

No WiFi Mearls @mikemearls
@edge2054 @JeremyECrawford I'd rule that the disease effects don't kick in until the third failed save
9:17 PM - 3 Oct 2014

 

[Eejit]

Then they should have used language that would indicate that, rather than the opposite.


I anyway think that Flesh Rot will often be stronger than Slimy Doom - there are other ways to stun and other ways to penalise the CON save, but no other method of inflicting vulnerability to all damage.