teitan
Legend
What would be the point, just play a different game.
Is D&D a setting or a toolbox?
- Thread starter Alzrius
- Start date
What would be the point, just play a different game.
Viking Bastard
Adventurer
Hacking a game to produce a different game is the foundation of RPG development. Pretty much all the early games were attempts at making D&D produce different results, which in turn got hacked to produce different games, which in turn got hacked to create different games.
So playing a different game is the point.
teitan
Legend
Then buy a different game and if d&d is so toolbox, then why does it require hacking. Hero needs no hacking to play any genre. You simply change the dial.
Ahnehnois
First Post
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
That's a matter of opinion. I don't think Hero system is bad, but there are plenty of things that aren't particularly easy to do with it, and many more that there are simply better games for. D&D is enough of a toolbox that you can do most any fantasy genre with it, which is all that was ever intended, and a lot of related stuff (science fantasy/apocalyptic future, supers).
In any case, I am not sure the setting vs toolbox is the best axis to talk about. D&D was meant to allow you to do a wide variety of fantasy-type RPing. It is IMHO a toolbox for that sort of game, you can do FR/DS/Eberron/DL/SJ/etc all with basically the same rules. IMHO it is also rather hard to separate rules from 'materials'. D&D has never assumed any specific core setting. Certainly it provides plenty of lore and etc that you can recycle into various games if you want, or you can ignore it. Some of the commercial settings use it, others ignore at least parts of it. Obviously you can go further afield from D&D conventions (different magic systems, etc) and you'll have to do more of the work yourself, or graft in material from other games. That would be true with any system, including Hero system where doing something like grafting in Vancian magic (or various other magic systems different RPGs and fantasy works have used) requires the same sort of process. Again, it isn't just trivial to do in Hero system, you have to come up with some way to value things in terms of points, and you have to work out differences between its rules and whatever you're doing. This is again no different than grafting in spell points or some other system into D&D. Honestly I don't think Hero system is all that easier, maybe no easier, on average to repurpose than 4e is.
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
I think it is fair to say that a subgenre of fantasy has grown around D&D and its default assumptions and conventions, sure. I'm still not satisfied with 'toolbox vs setting' though. I think it would be more useful to talk about the range of genre and tone that are available using a specific game, how well they are supported, and how easy it is to support them.
Viking Bastard
Adventurer
D&D does not require hacking. Anyway, what definition of hacking are you using? People have been using the word to describe everything from small tinkering and house rules to hacking together a new game, which is what meaning I--myself--personally have always put into the term. When I call D&D a toolbox (or framework), I do not mean "easily hackable". I mean that it's a game which consists of wealth of material (conveniently listed in catalogs like the various Monster Manuals, Splat Books, Planes of Existence) to cherry pick from to piece together my own D&D game (as in the game at my table) and setting (as in the one I create myself). I appreciate that D&D gives me this, while also making a lot of micro decisions for me, without forcing a setting down my throat. It's like the Mac OS of RPGs.
I don't know much about Hero, but GURPS was my old group's preferred system for a few years, as it's the near-ultimate toolbox and we liked being able to jump between genres without having to change rule systems. GURPS is a lot of work, though, as it decidedly doesn't make those micro-decisions for you, and plays in a way very different from D&D. We used it to recreate D&D-esque games (among other things) as me and my group did not really care for pre-d20 D&D rules as a whole, despite loving the D&D genre. It took us a while to get GURPS to "feel" enough like D&D in the way it played, so we hacked away at it until it did--significantly changed how it played at the table, while still using the wealth of information that came with GURPS.
I think when people feel motivated to hack D&D, it's something similar going on. People want to use that wealth of information (of which no other game has in the same abundance) but want it to play differently. Or they want something different to play like D&D, while jettisoning D&D genre-expectation.
I hope this helps you understand.
