Is D&D getting too powerful?

[pogre]

Maddman75 (and others) you might be interested in the XP system I have been using the last 2 years of my 3E games:

Story-based XP gain instead of based on killing/overcoming monsters. My house rules are below:

[snip]

Reminds me of the WFRP XP rules. I like them a lot.

 

[Spatula]

3) Uncapped character abilities at high levels. In 1E and 2E, after 10-12th level, character advancement and capabilities slowed down.

Unless you were a spellcaster, in which case each new level meant more spells and new spell levels. But for the non-casters, there was little point in progressing beyond 10th-12th. So, 1E and 2E were only "capped" for certain classes (and non-human races).

 

[Grazzt]

But is it just me, or did 2nd edition have a better feel to it?

Yep- it did. The same feeling ya get when ya eat the fuzzy green meat that's been in the 'fridge for about 2 months.

 

[Psion]

Hey, now, don't be harsh on the guy.

Actually, I'm not really directing any "harshness" towards him. He obviously had the wherewithal to jimmy his XP system the way he likes it.

If there is any "harshness" in my post, it is directed at those of you who are shaking your fist at the advancement rate in D&D when the framework for changing it is laid out for you in a book that you should already own if you are running a game.

 

[maddman75]

IIRC, doesn't the DMG mention story based XP as a possible suppliment to the standard rules, not meant to replace them? And the description is essentially what I do. If I want the 1st level group to be 2nd level after they clear out the Kobold lair and the evil graveyard, I award each player 500 XP for each task. Maybe a bonus for doing something really well. And I do try to break it up for 'in between' XP. After all, if they were always right at what they needed for a level, (ie, you have 1000xp. Next reward brings you to 3000xp) item creation would be impossible.

 

[NewJeffCT]

In 2E, a fighter at first level could take the ambidexterity and two weapon fighting proficiencies and suffer no attack or damage penalties, even if using two long swords. And, that fighter could also be specialized in the long sword at first level. So, he would be attacking 3/2 with his primary hand and 1/1 with his off hand, or 3 times in one round, 2 times in the next round. Each attack could be up to +4 to hit and +8 to damage at first level. In one round, a 2E fighter could potentially do 60 points of damage against a large opponent, or 48 against a small or medium. That does not count any critical hit charts you may have played with in 2E.

So, I do not think the power level has increased THAT much for the PCs. However, I do think that power level for monsters has gone up quite a bit. I know in 2E, we took out powerful dragons at seventh and eighth level as PCs. However, we got wiped out by a mid level dragon in 3E while well over tenth level.

We have hardly any house rules so far in 3E. In 2E, we had pages of them: We now have an official critical hit chart in 3E. In 2E, we used a third party critical hit chart from another publisher.

 

[Desdichado]

Yeah, I think advancement and power-ups come too fast in 3e. However, since that's literally probably the easiest thing to influence as a DM, I hardly feel the need to complain about it.

And sure, all of the house rules I use (which are a lot!) are flavor related, not system related. The system works fine, it just doesn't do exactly what I want it to.

2e literally did nothing the way I wanted to; it directly contributed to my not playing D&D for years and years.

 

[Psion]

IIRC, doesn't the DMG mention story based XP as a possible suppliment to the standard rules, not meant to replace them?

Actually, it provides an alternate time based method which IS specifically intended to supplant the CR XP, and specifically states that if you award other types of XP, you should not also award CR XP, or you should reduce such XP, so you don't just pour extra XP into the game and cause levels to skyrocket.

 

[MarauderX]

Well, considering I used to play the original D&D, Advanced has always been more powerful and growing. I know basic characters dropped like flys, but now it is easy to understand how players can get so attached to a PC that you want to make it hard to croak.

I thought about running an 'underpowered' campaign with my old players and there was almost a mutiny on me for suggesting it. They thought their characters were underpowered as it was (although 4/5 of them had 18 for prime stats), and thought they could use any bonuses they could get to prevent death.

All in all, I like the 3E system as it keeps the PCs alive more easily and keeps players more involved with the character attributes and development.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

If there is any "harshness" in my post, it is directed at those of you who are shaking your fist at the advancement rate in D&D when the framework for changing it is laid out for you in a book that you should already own if you are running a game.

Now, now... The only thing I shake my fist at is gronards telling me that the way it's written is the way it "should" be done.

IIRC, doesn't the DMG mention story based XP as a possible suppliment to the standard rules, not meant to replace them?

Yes, but this is similar to the methods laid out in Star Wars and CoC (I think... Don't have on me at the moment...) At any rate, his system seems fair; Now that I've given his system some thought, I'm thinking of adopting it.

I thought about running an 'underpowered' campaign with my old players and there was almost a mutiny on me for suggesting it. They thought their characters were underpowered as it was (although 4/5 of them had 18 for prime stats), and thought they could use any bonuses they could get to prevent death.

The problem here was likely the use of the term "underpowered", since it implies that the PCs are less powerful than everything else. "Lowerpowered" might have gone over a tad better (with open-minded Players, of course), since the term suggests that everything, not just PCs, are of a reduced potency. I think that was my main problem with half of the "reviews" I read for Wheel of Time: It was deemed "underpowered" by folks that were comparing it to D&D when it was really its own system and thus had its own balance.