Is Delay Spell really +3 levels?

[Destil]

It's very good if you put it to creative uses (pre-heling, can make for downright nasty ambushes, works devistatingly well with timestop). Though +3 is a bit much, I'd most lilely have gauged it at +2 myself.

 

[Bauglir]

High level sorcerer scouting invisibly discovers a group of powerful enemies, moves back out of earshot.

Round 1:
Haste (& wait)
Round 2:
Delayed Fireball (5)
Round 3:
Delayed Fireball (4)
Round 4:
Delayed Fireball (3)
Round 5:
Delayed Fireball (2)
Round 6:
Delayed Fireball (1)
Round 7:
2 x Fireball (70d6 damage kicks in at this point)
Round 8:
Pick up loot

It has its uses

 

[IceBear]

Lots of high level spellslots used up for that trick

IceBear

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Eh, no. You're taking a single target spell and changing it into a multi target spell - that sends the damage cap through the roof (think a multiplier of 1/2 caster level) for damaging spells, even if all that damage has to be on multiple targets.

If anything - especially when you consider the non-damaging effects possible - chain spell is broken. Not convinced? Chained Lesser Geas. Chaind Dispell Magic. Chained Blindness. Chained Feeblemind.

Yeah, it's not the greatest for damaging spells - comparatively - but the majority of the metamagic feats I've seen are gamebreaking, if used imaginatively. Certainly not worthless - although Delay Spell seems to be.

Er yes, check the damage caps. A flat area of effect spell is a 1 level icnrease on the damage caps. Hmm chanin lightning is what 6th level with a 20d6 cap, hmm maybe 1 target for full 1/2 daamge for the rest is seen as a little weaker than a full area of effect spell. But no they screwed up massively and made it +3 levels so you get a whopping 10d6 cap on your 6th level chained spell. Yeah brilliant.

And sure the save or die varients are ok, but at -4 to the save and +3 levels the only real beenfit your getting is the hope that eventually the DM will roll like crap. So yeah against a lot of epople it might be effective.

Still how hard would it be to have +1 level for damaging spells, +3 levels for effect based spells. And you can use all your crap metamagic feats as creatively as you want but the vast majority of them suck after the PH. there are a few stand out ones like persistent, sculpt, and energy substitution that range from too good to actualy worth taking but the rest suck. Sure you can get a use out of them, but I can get a use out of skill focus or dodge, that doesn't change that they suck.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

High level sorcerer scouting invisibly discovers a group of powerful enemies, moves back out of earshot.

Round 1:
Haste (& wait)
Round 2:
Delayed Fireball (5)
Round 3:
Delayed Fireball (4)
Round 4:
Delayed Fireball (3)
Round 5:
Delayed Fireball (2)
Round 6:
Delayed Fireball (1)
Round 7:
2 x Fireball (70d6 damage kicks in at this point)
Round 8:
Pick up loot

It has its uses

Yeah and if they dared to move 30' in 7 rounds you got only two things out of those 11 spells, and jack left town.

 

[Bauglir]

Makes a nice satisfying big boom though doesn't it

Lets go nuts and maximize everything (using 5 9th level spells I know ) there's 420 damage (effectively) in a round (with saves ofc)

Or what about stacking it with saveordie spells?

7 hold persons = a lot of saves to make, heck you might even get a phantasmal killer to stick

 

[Kae'Yoss]

High level sorcerer scouting invisibly discovers a group of powerful enemies, moves back out of earshot.

Round 1:
Haste (& wait)
Round 2:
Delayed Fireball (5)
Round 3:
Delayed Fireball (4)
Round 4:
Delayed Fireball (3)
Round 5:
Delayed Fireball (2)
Round 6:
Delayed Fireball (1)
Round 7:
2 x Fireball (70d6 damage kicks in at this point)
Round 8:
Pick up loot

It has its uses

Why not:

Round 1: Haste (Wait)
Round 2: Delayed Blast Fireball (5), Delayed Blast Fireball (5)
Round 3: Delayed Blast Fireball (4), Delayed Blast Fireball (4)
Round 4: Delayed Blast Fireball (3), Delayed Blast Fireball (3)
Round 5: Delayed Blast Fireball (2), Delayed Blast Fireball (2)
Round 6: Delayed Blast Fireball (1), Delayed Blast Fireball (1)
Round 7: Delayed Blast Fireball (0), Delayed Blast Fireball (0)
240d6 damage kicks in at this point?

And why the haste in the example above? Metamagic turns it onto a full-round action, no full round casting. So you'll finish the spell in the same round you start casting it (although all you can do beside that is the 5ft-step, then).

 

[Bauglir]

Surely, given that it's a full-round action, you can't get 2 of them off in a round, even with haste?

What is the difference between full-round action and full-round cast anyway?

 

[IceBear]

What is the difference between full-round action and full-round cast anyway?

A full-round action has the spell go off on your initiative count, but it takes all your actions that round (except for a 5ft step). It's exactly like a fighter taking a full round attack action.

A full-round cast is like casting summon monster. You start casting on your initiative count in one round, but the spell doesn't come into effect until just before your initiative count the next round.

IceBear

 

[Hypersmurf]

It's exactly like a fighter taking a full round attack action.

... which you can't do twice with Haste.

Nor can you use the Start Full-Round Action Partial Action to make three full attacks in two rounds while Hasted, since "Full Attack Action" is not a Miscellaneous Full Round Action.

By the same logic, you can only cast two metamagicked full-round spells and two single action spells in two rounds (with Haste), not three or even four full-round spells.

-Hyp.