D&D 5E Is DnD next chasing a pipedream?

[Jester David]

Wizards seems to be trying to make DnD Next attractive to Pathfinder players but all the PF players I know either don't know about DnDnext and/or don't care. They are happy with PF and are not going to switch. So what is the purposes of making a game that your target group won't play and which some of your current customers don't like. Wizards is making DnD Next like 3.5 and PF but we already have those. It just seems so pointless.

I think WotC as learned their lesson after 4e where they cannot just make a new game and expect people to play. They know they have to win sales.
But they're not *just* trying for Pathfinder fans. They're trying to make a game with widespread appeal. To attract Basic and 1e fans as well.

D&D Next has its problems. Some of this is marketing as WotC is not spreading the word too far out of the community. They're hitting people already in the loop. WotC's marketing department is terrible at spreading the word. But I doubt D&D is their priority.

Right now D&D Next has a couple things going for it. First and foremost is the Free2Play aspect of the playtest. Groups go through game fatigue. They get tired of a game and are ready for something new. Or they need a break. Or someone is missing a couple sessions. D&D Next can fill that gap. It's there.
There's also the retro feel. The design of Next lends itself well to 1e modules (and, by extension, 2e modules). It works with content you already own.

The problems are that it is still a playtest, that content isn't out yet, and the process is slow.
The other problem remains that it is being published by WotC. And the final decisions on format & release of the game and content rely on upper management that is not gamers. And that the last two editions have been marred by quick staff turnover, which has changed and distorted plans for the product line.

 

[El Mahdi]

Wizards seems to be trying to make DnD Next attractive to Pathfinder players but all the PF players I know either don't know about DnDnext and/or don't care. They are happy with PF and are not going to switch. So what is the purposes of making a game that your target group won't play and which some of your current customers don't like. Wizards is making DnD Next like 3.5 and PF but we already have those. It just seems so pointless.

First, WotC is trying to make D&D Next attractive to everybody, and not specifically targeting only Pathfinder players. In order for D&D Next to be successful, they need to target all D&D fans, regardless of edition (and I consider Pathfinder an edition of D&D). Also, not all D&D fans limit themselves to just one game or edition...including Pathfinder fans. Just because one plays Pathfinder, or even prefers Pathfinder, it doesn't necessarily follow that one will only play Pathfinder to the exclusion of any other game system. Even if only a percentage of Pathfinder fans buy the core books for D&D Next, even if only to occasionally play with friends that do play D&D Next, then WotC has accomplished it's goals...they sold D&D Books.

Second, WotC is not making D&D Next like 3.5...or at least more accurately...not exclusively making it like 3.5. There's elements of all past editions in there, and yet no straight copies of mechanics from any edition. It's being made to play like any previous edition of D&D, not direct mechanical clones of every edition.

Third, D&D Next is far from a finished product. It's system mechanics are going to drift around quite a lot...sometimes closer to this, sometimes closer to that...before the final form of the game is reached. Even then, I imagine it will still have some malleability as new ideas, errata's, and module concepts are developed. (Though hopefully not as much errata as past editions...).

Fourth, whether pipedream or not (and everybody is entitled to and has their own opinion on this), WotC really has no other choice right now. If they want to keep D&D financially viable, this is what they have to do.

Fifth, if D&D Next doesn't accomplish what WotC needs it to (financially), they have only one other option as far as I see. Develop DDI to support all editions of D&D (including Pathfinder), and make their money from subscription services and electronic sales of past material.

 

[RedShirtNo5.1]

In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure-dome decree:
Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea.

There's a result of chasing a pipedream. Was it pointless?

 

[Derren]

To be successful (for Hasbro) D&D next has to retain all current players and get all lost players back. But that only works if they out-Pathfinder Pathfinder and also keep all devoted 4E players.


Not going to happen.

 

[El Mahdi]

At some point PF will get old, moldy and bogged down under its own weight. We shall see how the fanboys react when Pathfinder 2.0 comes out. That is when D&D will win them back. (or not - I like to cover my bases when I make a predication).

Will it be a PathFOUND or PathLOST edition...?

Considering the fickleness of us gamers, opinions will probably be split 50/50...

 

[VinylTap]

To be successful (for Hasbro) D&D next has to retain all current players and get all lost players back. But that only works if they out-Pathfinder Pathfinder and also keep all devoted 4E players.


Not going to happen.

What line of thinking brought you to that conclusion? They're trying to be inclusive of a more mainstream crowd. The problem with 4th is that its excessive crunch and "gamey"-ness alienated people who were more open to roleplaying than tactical combat (Warning: NOT MAKING A VALUE JUDGEMENT on any game). The demographic they're looking at is much bigger than the current market for PnP RPG's. I'm not saying its 100% realistic for them, but to suggest there's a "market cap" at the number of people currently playing PnP rpg's is a little ridiculous.

The problem with Pathfinder is also that it has a 'tough to penetrate' system based on aging game mechanics. Even Paizo openly admit this.

 

[El Mahdi]

To be successful (for Hasbro) D&D next has to retain all current players and get all lost players back...

Interesting.

What information do you have (that the rest of us apparently don't) that supports this statement?

Do you perhaps have in-house Hasbro documents or memorandums that state this? Do you perhaps work for Hasbro or WotC and are now speaking out of school? Do you have a quote by anyone from Hasbro or WotC that backs this up?

If so, I'd really like to see that. I'm betting Morrus would love to have that information also, for posting on the News page. That would be an incredible RPG News scoop if you can deliver...?



Or maybe this is just an opinion, and not a fact as stated...

 

[Evenglare]

I'm wary of 5th edition because Wizard doesn't stick to ANYTHING they do. It's like they are ready for the next big thing. Remember all the tools that were supposed to come out when 4th edition came out? Didn't happen. When the character builder came out and started getting good, BAM online crappy character builder. Then they started with this essentials nonsense , which never took off. They never finished off the 3 tier structure with a DMG 3. And now they have all but dropped support for 4th edition. It doesn't matter what D&D next will be because in 2 years they will get another new idea then try and change the current game, it wont work and they will make a new edition.

I've been VERY unhappy with wizards buisness procedures since 4th edition came out. Don't misquote me, I enjoy 4th edition as a game, but what does it even matter now. They don't care enough to give it official support.

Wizards, stick with a damned edition for at least a decade. PLEASE.

 

[Derren]

What line of thinking brought you to that conclusion? They're trying to be inclusive of a more mainstream crowd. The problem with 4th is that its excessive crunch and "gamey"-ness alienated people who were more open to roleplaying than tactical combat (Warning: NOT MAKING A VALUE JUDGEMENT on any game). The demographic they're looking at is much bigger than the current market for PnP RPG's. I'm not saying its 100% realistic for them, but to suggest there's a "market cap" at the number of people currently playing PnP rpg's is a little ridiculous.

The problem with Pathfinder is also that it has a 'tough to penetrate' system based on aging game mechanics. Even Paizo openly admit this.

More Mainstream? 4E has shown what happens when you go more mainstream. You loose your old customers but barely get any new ones ad PnP isn't mainstream.

 

[VinylTap]

More Mainstream? 4E has shown what happens when you go more mainstream. You loose your old customers but barely get any new ones ad PnP isn't mainstream.

You're simplifying things a little too much. 4th was not more "accessible" to your average person, but what they did do was develop the game into combat system that allowed for a more rewarding tactical experience. This appealed to the younger video game crowd because they were used to that presentation-- and it appeals to that demo.

More accessible (read: mainstream) is less crunch, tbh. I'm not saying you can't have a strategic edge to simple combat (chess, go etc) but the days of excessive stat modifiers and a plethora of cruchy options are more or less over for the core set of DnD. These are the things that people in this community love going over and over endlessly about, but will more often than not turn newer players away.