Is dominate evil?

[Aran Thule]

As per the title i would like to see what peoples thoughts are with regards to Charm spells such as dominate.
It doesnt use negative energy so isn't an [evil] spell but would you classify its use as evil
Do you see it as just a spell or is it the equivalent of magical slavery
Also how do you respond to players using them on other players?

 

[Hand of Evil]

To me, anything that alters free will is, it is taking choice away. A person becomes a victim of the action.

It should also be noted that Protection from Evil and other such spells prevents domination.

[sblock]
Dominate Person
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 4, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One humanoid
Duration: One day/level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You can control the actions of any humanoid creature through a telepathic link that you establish with the subject’s mind.

If you and the subject have a common language, you can generally force the subject to perform as you desire, within the limits of its abilities. If no common language exists, you can communicate only basic commands, such as “Come here,” “Go there,” “Fight,” and “Stand still.” You know what the subject is experiencing, but you do not receive direct sensory input from it, nor can it communicate with you telepathically.

Once you have given a dominated creature a command, it continues to attempt to carry out that command to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival (such as sleeping, eating, and so forth). Because of this limited range of activity, a Sense Motive check against DC 15 (rather than DC 25) can determine that the subject’s behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect (see the Sense Motive skill description).

Changing your instructions or giving a dominated creature a new command is the equivalent of redirecting a spell, so it is a move action.

By concentrating fully on the spell (a standard action), you can receive full sensory input as interpreted by the mind of the subject, though it still can’t communicate with you. You can’t actually see through the subject’s eyes, so it’s not as good as being there yourself, but you still get a good idea of what’s going on.

Subjects resist this control, and any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus. Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out. Once control is established, the range at which it can be exercised is unlimited, as long as you and the subject are on the same plane. You need not see the subject to control it.

If you don’t spend at least 1 round concentrating on the spell each day, the subject receives a new saving throw to throw off the domination.

Protection from evil or a similar spell can prevent you from exercising control or using the telepathic link while the subject is so warded, but such an effect neither prevents the establishment of domination nor dispels it.
[/sblock]

 

[LostSoul]

There could be some situations where it's not evil but I don't think those situations show up that often in D&D, so I voted evil.

It should also be noted that Protection from Evil and other such spells prevents domination.

Protection from evil (3E) only protects against control while it's in effect.

Protection from evil or a similar spell can prevent you from exercising control or using the telepathic link while the subject is so warded, but such an effect neither prevents the establishment of domination nor dispels it.​

 

[jonesy]

I accidentally voted 'not evil'. I really meant to choose evil. No, I mean vote evil. No, that's..

I can't think of a use that wouldn't be evil, or at least neutral.

 

[Celebrim]

It's hard for me to answer a question about an imaginary thing. Instead of addressing your question directly, I'll discuss how I imagine my imaginary peoples view Dominate.

First of all, even if you don't believe Dominate is inherently evil, it's easy to see why anyone who isn't magical would view anyone potentially capable of casting a spell like Charm or Dominate to be inherently suspicious and dangerous. The very possibility that someone else might be able to take away their mind and take control over their body and use them according to their wishes is frankly discomforting and to many terrifying. It just seems like a power that ought not to be trusted in any mortal hands, and in generally that's exactly how it is viewed regardless of whether the individual sees it as absolutely evil or only relatively so.

For this reason, in almost every culture on Sartha, if you Charm or Dominate someone you have to prove that you were defending yourself from an immenent lethal threat, or its considered the crime of rape and is punished by drawing and quartering the spellcaster. Whether or not its considered inherently evil, it is considered for all practical purposes inherently illegal. Likewise, even the suspicion that you are capable of casting magic of that sort is likely to lead to ostricization at best and a lynching at worst. "She's a witch!", is a very serious charge and one that is hard to escape from. "Jedi mind tricks" are not viewed as a flippant and amusing power, and really I find it difficult to imagine how a group known for such a power would be viewed as good guys and not at all hard to imagine why a purge of them would be supported by the general population.

Secondly, even among those that don't see it as inherently evil, there is a strong agreement by most good folk and some neutrals that its inherently dangerous to the spellcaster because it places such a terrible power in his hands that its far too tempting and far too easy to misuse it. There is a general feeling that if it isn't inherently evil, then its a very slippery slope and that once a person begins to use it for self-indulgent or flippant reasons evil of a terrible sort follows along very quickly.

Thirdly, while there isn't strong agreement that it is inherently evil, there is fairly strong agreement that it leans both evil and law as an example of one of the most extreme forms of tyranny. Almost all Chaotic Good and Chaotic Neutral characters find it extremely distasteful at a minimum, and many would view it as inherently and absolutely evil. But just because it isn't seen as absolutely evil doesn't mean that such powers would be accepted. Consider the case of a society that leans strongly LE. While the idea of the supreme ruler possessing such a power might seem to such a society to be just and only proper, the idea that anyone else would possess such a power and therefore be able to usurp rights and dignities the inherently belong to their superiors in this manner would be just about the most horrifying thing imaginable. How could you trust that you were recieving orders from your rightful leige if you could not trust that your rightful leige retained his will and reason? The power to compell others to obey without regard to station is about the most terrible thing that a LE society can imagine, and so while their would be some who were duly authorized to use this power in the name of the leige they'd be kept on a short leash and anyone not so authorized would be most likely subject to summary execution. That is to say, merely knowing the spell Charm Person or Dominate Person much less using it might be seen as the grounds for being put to death - not because of it is evil but because its a danger to the right ordering of society. The power to compell properly belongs only to the tyrant.

 

[NewJeffCT]

As per the title i would like to see what peoples thoughts are with regards to Charm spells such as dominate.
It doesnt use negative energy so isn't an [evil] spell but would you classify its use as evil
Do you see it as just a spell or is it the equivalent of magical slavery
Also how do you respond to players using them on other players?

As long as the person being dominated knows the safe word, it's not evil.

 

[Dausuul]

I view domination as being on the same spectrum as killing. To take away the free will of a sapient creature is presumptively evil, just as taking away its life would be. Picking a random person who hasn't done anything wrong and casting dominate person, just because you want to, is an evil action.

However, as with killing, there are circumstances under which necessity and the previous behavior of the subject can justify the use of mind-control magic. If someone is about to commit murder and you cast dominate person and order her to stop, that would be acceptable if there is no less drastic way of accomplishing the same goal.

 

[Umbran]

The usual argument is that dominate takes away free will, and that is evil.

But, in the context of the 3e and prior alignment system, I'm not sure that's the case - is not free will more an issue for the law/chaos axis? Laws restrict free will. By the usual argument, laws are thus evil, and Paladins could not exist!

My personal take on it is, as with most issues of morality and ethics, the question cannot be answered in general. Specific details of the situation, motivations, desired results, and actual all impact whether a thing is, in the end, evil.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I think it depends on the situation. Due to the fact that you're circumventing a creature's free will, I don't think dominate can ever be typified as a good act, but I do think there are many situations where it can be essentially neutral.

If you use it to prevent an evil creature from hurting someone, I definitely wouldn't characterize that as evil. It's more debatable if one turns the dominated creature against it's allies (who are also attempting evil) but I'd say it's still effectively neutral. If it's okay for a good person to slay an evil creature, then I don't see how using magic to turn that creature against it's allies is that much worse... dead is dead, after all.

There are certainly situations in which dominate is evil. Dominating someone to perform an evil act is certainly evil. However, I don't believe that dominate is, itself, inherently evil.

 

[Rune]

...really I find it difficult to imagine how a group known for such a power would be viewed as good guys

Through the use of such powers, of course!