Is Dying Such a Bad Thing?

[EP]

Not the mechanics (which makes it nearly impossible to die unless you're crushed to -30 hp) but the principle of fighting until you drop for good. We faced that this past weekend when facing an army of 1000 soldiers trying to arrest the city's baron. Half of the party was hesitant and wanted to look at other options - my barbarian wanted to toss in and have at 'er.

"Uh, dude, you'll be killed," they said.

"I know," was my reply. "You don't actually think we'll live through this, will you?"

The players were shocked that I willing to send my character into battle and potentially die. Why not? Where's the thrill of playing if you know you'll always succeed? I hate reading novels and comics where characters keep coming back from the dead - it's the entire reason why I stopped reading comics. Without death, where's the danger? Where's the thrill? Without failure, there's no accomplishment in success.

But I seem to be in the minority. Or am I? Anyone agree with me here?

 

[Obryn]

I kinda like it when my characters die spectacularly, because it makes for a good story and lets me make a new character.

I guess I don't really see character death as the failure condition it's expected to be. I don't find it scary - I find it kinda awesome. So, for me, I guess the only kind of failure I consider is the risk of a dull night.

Now, I haven't found, so far, that this makes success any less thrilling. I mean, it's still awesome fun. So I guess I ultimately disagree with your reasoning while agreeing that character death isn't a bad thing.

-O

 

[rogueattorney]

I don't want to play D&D unless there is a significant risk of my character dying.

 

[Fifth Element]

You're certainly not alone. Character death can be loads of fun. It can also suck. It depends on the situation.

 

[Nifft]

Dying spectacularly is cool.

Dying ineffectually is not cool.

If my PC could reasonably hold back the 1,000 bad guys for long enough that something significant was accomplished -- an evacuation, setting a trap to kill off the rest of them, whatever -- then hell yeah, let's do this thing.

If my PC is running into certain death for no particular benefit... screw that.

Cheers, -- N

 

[EP]

Dying spectacularly is cool.

Dying ineffectually is not cool.

True enough. Being killed by a trap sucks. Dying to save another...priceless.

One of the advantage of being the barbarian, especially in the situation given above, is that you can be reckless and it's part of your character. I think everyone would have tried harder to stop me if I was a bard or something else.

 

[Rechan]

And here I thought this thread would be how killing someone can be evil if everyone knows they're going to their heaven (or justly put in their hell).

To the OP, from the impression I get from the table, they were trying to get out alive. Most people aren't suicidal, and that translates to their characters. It wasn't the RISK of death, but the promise of it. There's nothing awesome about the 1st level PC kicking a sleeping dragon.

I think a few things.

1) I think death is the least interesting result of failure. Dying is easy - you're dead and don't have to worry about the repercussions. When failure results in someone else dying, or something else happening that leaves you alive but much, much worse off, it's more of an impact.

2) Dying (at least in terms of a TPK) means you lost everything, typically the quest, etc. Usually it means a new campaign, rather than continuing. And to point 1, if you lose when on something important, the bad guy gets to go free and do his thing. If not, if you died to some random encounter, you died in vain and uninteresting way.

3) I personally don't have a problem with death. Not because "No risk no reward", I just have so many character ideas that I'd rather my character die than I play the same guy the whole 30 levels.

4) With #3 said, I'd rather die cool.

5) I hate Raise Dead. It makes death a temporary inconvenience. If you're coming back from the dead in my games, either you do so because Something Is Going On plot wise, or your party marched in and dragged your soul out of the Land of the Dead.

 

[Obryn]

2) Dying (at least in terms of a TPK) means you lost everything, typically the quest, etc. Usually it means a new campaign, rather than continuing. And to point 1, if you lose when on something important, the bad guy gets to go free and do his thing. If not, if you died to some random encounter, you died in vain and uninteresting way.

This is why I try to avoid TPKs whenever possible. They just kill momentum, IME. It's one thing to have a few deaths and new characters here and there; there's still some continuity. It's another thing entirely to basically have a whole new group and try to continue the same story-line. I'd rather throw in a capture scenario, if possible.

3) I personally don't have a problem with death. Not because "No risk no reward", but because I have so many character ideas that I'd rather my character die than I play the same guy the whole 30 levels.

4) With #3 said, I'd rather die cool than die lamely.

Yes, and Yes. I left Jergal, my half-orc tempest chainfighter, with the group and basically said, "Seriously. If he dies, it's okay. There are so many cool things I'd like to do, character-wise, that - as I said above - death just isn't a deterrent for me.

5) I hate Raise Dead. It makes death so meaningless. If you're coming back from the dead in my games, either you do so because Something Is Going On plot wise, or your party marched in and dragged your soul out of the Land of the Dead.

I like it for plot reasons. (See above, re: TPK's.) I don't generally want my own characters Raised. My players would usually rather make a new character, too. So I guess it all works out.

-O

 

[Scribble]

Apparently it involves being taken to a church where your dead father lets you know it's a place you get to meetup with all your friends before "moving on..."

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It depends upon the PC and how I feel about it.

As I've posted about this PC multiple times before...

One of my most memorable PCs of all time was a 1ED Fighter named Bear. I made a deal with my DM- give me maxed out physical stats and all of his mental stats would be 6-7s. Bear was a gentle giant, he fought because he was trained to do so by those around him (what else was he going to do?). Despite his nature, though, he had hooked up with a manipulative thief who treated him well...in order to have the most loyal and dangerous bodyguard he could find. That thief was- to Bear- brother, father and God all rolled up into a diminutive package that was his only true friend.

The thief eventually took something he really shouldn't have, and the City Watch boiled out of their barracks like fire ants from a kicked-over mound. As the party fled, the thief told Bear to protect him...

As they crossed a river on a narrow bridge, Bear turned and faced the entire Watch himself, taking down one after another until he died. By then, the party was safely away.

OTOH, some of my PCs place a higher value on their own skin than on anything else in the world...and take every conceivable measure to stay alive.

Or I really became attached to the PC, like Darkethorne, a PC I've been playing since 1985. He's died at least once (...but he got better.).

Or the PC became "The One" and central to driving the campaign's plot forward.

In any of those cases, PC death would be a problem, either for me or for the campaign.