Is Evil Hat Republishing TSR's Star Frontiers?

Last year, Sasquatch Game Studio announced that it had acquired the trademark for TSR's old Alternity science-fiction game. At the time, it was mentioned that they did not have the Star*Drive, Dark*Matter, Gamma World, StarCraft Adventures, or Star Frontiers, properties owned by WotC. This may be changing, though - because Evil Hat Productions has applied for the trademark to Star Frontiers.

Some caveats are worth noting - the trademark application was made in July 2017, and it's likely that nothing will happen on it for months. At this stage, it's just an application, so there's no guarantee that it will even be approved. Speculation is what speculation is, but this is very much a "wait-and-see" situation.

So, what's Star Frontiers? It's a space opera RPG produced by TSR back in the early 80s. Many elements of the game were later re-used in various forms in Spelljammer, d20 Future, and other TSR/WotC games and settings. It was a percentile system game, set in an area of space dominated by the United Planetary Federation composed of four races - Humans, the amoeboid Dralasite, the insectoid Vrusk, and the ape-like Yazirian.

Evil Hat, of course, is the publisher of the popular ENnie-winning Fate line of RPGs, which is a flexible system designed to accommodate a vast array of settings. Whether they plan to make a Fate version of Star Frontiers is far, far too early to start speculating on. I guess we may find out more next year, if the trademark application is approved.

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[doctorhook]

Just FYI, Spider-Man Homecoming was excellent.

 

[Jhaelen]

It can only be a good thing if they completely ignore the old game mechanics - they're hopelessly out-dated.

However, aside from nostalgia, what's interesting about Star Frontiers?
For a modern 'update' there's already Starfinder. Adding the Star Frontiers races (which are easily the most memorable bit) to Starfinder would be almost trivial.

 

[Jer]

In case it's news to some, the original Starfrontiers is in a grey place that looks like it makes it free legally.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?245870-Star-Frontiers-Gamma-World/page2

I'm not seeing where in that comment thread it's a grey area. It looks more like Wizards granted permission to a few fansites to be fansites and to host old material without contest. That's the opposite of being in a grey area - that's Wizards giving them explicit permission.

It looks like the trademark has lapsed, but Wizards would still own the copyright on the original materials. Anyone wanting to make a derivative work would bump up against copyright law. If they want to use the setting without potentially getting involved in a lawsuit, they'd need to work with Wizards.

Evil Hat may just want the name "Star Frontiers" for their own game that is disconnected from the original. It would be a great name to snag if you wanted to make either a retro 70s/80s sci-fi game or a Star Trek knock-off. Or a Firefly knock-off, come to think of it. I could see PbtA games around any of those core ideas using that name.

 

[Jer]

However, aside from nostalgia, what's interesting about Star Frontiers?

Not much beyond that really. The artwork and era of publication give it a very late-70s/early-80s sci-fi aesthetic, and if that's what you want to play it's a decent game for it. With some tweaking, the rules give a game that feels more "cinematic" (for lack of a better word) than realistic, which is a good fit if you want to play in a game that feels like a cheesy 80s Star Wars knock-off movie that you might find being mocked on Mystery Science Theater.

I have a lot of love and nostalgia for the game myself because it was one of the first non-D&D games I ever ran, and I personally love the setting as a retro-70s/80s throwback. But I'm not sure that as a game there's a lot to offer a modern audience who doesn't have a nostalgic connection to it unless you're going to position it as a retro sci-fi experience.

 

[ddaley]

If they update the original system, then I am definitely in. I loved Star Frontiers back in the day. But, if they use a completely new system, and simply re-use the name, then I'll probably pass. I already have too many RPGs. I am not familiar with FATE and have no desire to learn yet another RPG system.

If you remove the game system and what makes Star Frontiers what it is as a setting, what's left, really? I don't mean to offend, but I'm not interested in something that is Star Frontiers in name only and doesn't at all sell in the US.

 

[ddaley]

I plan to do exactly this.

... Adding the Star Frontiers races (which are easily the most memorable bit) to Starfinder would be almost trivial.

 

[Doctor Futurity]

There's a prominent OSR crowd out there that would enjoy seeing Star Frontiers, with its original mechanics, back in print.

I have learned to enjoy FATE but would be disappointed to see a new Star Frontiers using FATE mechanics.

All of this is still speculation right now, though. All we can say for sure is they are trying to get access to the name, but nothing anywhere suggests the setting or mechanics are coming with it.

 

[Morrus]

For a modern 'update' there's already Starfinder. Adding the Star Frontiers races (which are easily the most memorable bit) to Starfinder would be almost trivial.

Starfinder isn't a modern update of Star Frontiers; only inasmuch as they're both in space, but by that standard Pathfinder is a modern update of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying or Runequest.

A lot of people enjoy a robust percentile system game, and percentiles - for better or worse - does give a more sci-fi "feel" to a game.

Of course, we don't know what their plans are. All we know is that they've applied for a trademark. Old system, updated system, Fate system, brand new system... could be anything!

 

[ddaley]

I actually like the percentile system for games like this.

We only played Top Secret a few times, but if I remember correctly, it used a % system as well with a number of derived attributes (which I also really liked).

..A lot of people enjoy a robust percentile system game, and percentiles - for better or worse - does give a more sci-fi "feel" to a game.

 

[Zarithar]

I'd actually love to see Star Frontiers and Gamma World both updated to use the 5e D&D rules. I'd like to see all 3 WoTC/TSR properties updated to share the same rules system (though not the same universe as is the case with Pathfinder/Starfinder).

 

[aramis erak]

The issue isn't so much game mechanics, as it is setting - and that's definitely a copyright thing. I highly doubt that Evil Hat would use Star Frontier's mechanics over their own highly successful FATE rules.

Of course, that necessitates the question: why would they use the name, when they can't use the setting and likely won't use the mechanics or anything similar? At least when Sasquatch was making neo-Alternity, they used a similar mechanic to old Alternity (though I'm not a fan of some of their choices, which is why I decided against supporting the Kickstarter) even if they couldn't use the StarDrive setting.

If they get the setting and move it to Fate, they're going to lose a good part of the extant fanbase.

It's happened repeatedly. Twilight 2013. Space 1889 Ubiquity. Red Sands (1889 to Savage worlds). Mongoose Traveller. Mongoose RuneQuest. Mongoose Judge Dredd. Star Wars d20. Star Wars Narrative Dice System (Edge/Age/F&D). LUG Trek, Decipher Trek, and Modiphius Trek.

The question is, will it bring enough new blood to be successful...

Now, It's a safe bet that they are going to use the setting - because legit remastered PDFs have stood several 3rd party DCMA reports for the non-commercial "Remastered Editions" licensed by WOTC years ago. (Which is a whole other kettle of fish - making DMCA reports for other companies is not in the blackletter law...) That particular fan project has, however, fizzled - nothing new since 2014

So, there's an extant mechanical fanbase, but it's aging out. And there are many better systems, so retrocloning it seems pretty pointless.

Which brings back the question of the setting. Without it, it's dead. With it, it's been unsupported by WOTC since 1999, and the most rabid fans since 2014......

 

[lyle.spade]

Starfinder isn't a modern update of Star Frontiers; only inasmuch as they're both in space, but by that standard Pathfinder is a modern update of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying or Runequest.

A lot of people enjoy a robust percentile system game, and percentiles - for better or worse - does give a more sci-fi "feel" to a game.

Of course, we don't know what their plans are. All we know is that they've applied for a trademark. Old system, updated system, Fate system, brand new system... could be anything!

I agree with Morrus' comment on the feel of a percentile system - it somehow seems fitting to scifi. Beyond the core mechanic, I also think that a skills-based system is more fitting for modern and scifi settings than one based on levels. Really, how many games aside from the many flavors of F20 are rooted in levels anymore? Very few. Maybe I am okay with classes anchored in levels for DnD because that's where I started and have a legacy of familiarity and comfort with it. But level-based scifi seems odd...out of place....limiting.

I have only played Fate a few times and I have no idea if it'd be good for scifi, or the story and vibe of SF. I think something a little crunchier, d100, and skills-based would be better, along with the core of the original canon - that is, races, the Frontier, and some of the places established in the corebooks and modules.

 

[darjr]

Starfrontiersman had a 5e version of Starfrontiers. I ran a few convention games using it.

Issue 11 via my affiliate link.
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/143590?affiliate_id=182934

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

For a modern 'update' there's already Starfinder. Adding the Star Frontiers races (which are easily the most memorable bit) to Starfinder would be almost trivial.

Er, sure, if you take out all of the Starfinder races and all of the _magic_ and much of the gear - then it's "trivial".

Are you under the impression that Star Frontiers was D&D in space?

 

[dynath]

The question with this is that acquiring a trademark only grants use of the product's title. Game mechanics are still covered under copyright laws, and those therefore remain WotC's property AFAIK.

Game mechanics aren't covered under copyright law. They can be patented but the patent would be expired by now. The more likely issue is the trademark concerning product identity. The name of the game, races, locations, etc. is what is trademarked. If WotC hasn't used it, they might have lost it but even if they didn't it could still be upheld and they need to do it for every trademark. Not just the name but every individual part that is covered by trademark, all the planets, organization names, characters, etc. Then the background fluff could easily be copy-written, but this is more likely owned by the original authors or their estates rather than WotC itself. You'd have to track down who owned what and make sure you can secure the rights to stuff. This is why old games and settings don't get revived much.

 

[Bruce Heard]

(...) The name of the game, races, locations, etc. is what is trademarked. (...)

Sorry, no. Trademarks are for the names of products or services. Races, locations, names of characters, art, and so forth are not part of a product's trademark. They are covered under copyright laws.

 

[Jhaelen]

Are you under the impression that Star Frontiers was D&D in space?

Regarding the original mechanics, clearly not. But regarding the pulpy space-opera setting? Definitely.

What I remember from the old Star Frontier adventure modules I have still got stashed away somewhere, they were about (crash?)landing on some backwater planet and helping the low-tech native race to fight against blaster-wielding sentient octopi from space riding cyber-dinosaurs trying to enslave the natives.

I've seen almost the exact same things in regular D&D.

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

Regarding the original mechanics, clearly not. But regarding the pulpy space-opera setting? Definitely.

What I remember from the old Star Frontier adventure modules I have still got stashed away somewhere, they were about (crash?)landing on some backwater planet and helping the low-tech native race to fight against blaster-wielding sentient octopi from space riding cyber-dinosaurs trying to enslave the natives.

I've seen almost the exact same things in regular D&D.

Well that's one three - adventure series, and the details are quite a bit different from most contemporary D&D adventures.

Again, as far as comparisons to Starfinder, the complete lack of magic, religion, alignment, and many other D&D tropes, added on the the mechanical differences makes for a very different feel and type of game. You could probably use d6 or one of the other Star Wars systems or even the new Star Trek system and be closer to recreating it than Starfinder.

 

[M.T. Black]

I'd be really pleased to see Star Frontiers return, as it's a great space opera setting and one that never realised it's potential. I'm hoping Evil Hat have licensed the IP from WOTC, and that Steve Winters will be involved in the development. I will back the inevitable kickstarter!

Using the original mechanics would be a mistake, as they were pretty clunky even back then. A Fate-based system could work well, though it might clash with the "Frontier Spirit" or "Andromeda" settings.

A better idea, IMO, would be to release it as a 5E-based system. I believe it could be done quite simply and well, and there is an audience of hundreds of thousands of 5E players out there who currently have no real SciFi options. There is a market opportunity. As Morrus pointed out, Evil Hat currently release RPGs based not only on Fate, but also on Gumshoe and PBTA. They clearly like to diversify, so it would make sense to add a 5E system to their portfolio.

 

[evilhat]

Leave it to the Internet to blow a not-yet-approved trademark application all out of proportion with rampant unfounded speculation.