"Is it an Evil Outsider??"

[Ormiss]

In my opinion, the favored enemy bonuses apply because the ranger knows (for instance) how to act against them in combat--how to anticipate their moves. If the ranger, for whatever reason, doesn't realize that she's fighting an "evil outsider" then she shouldn't get the bonuses. If a dragon is disguised, it makes no sense that the ranger would fight as though she were facing a dragon unless she saw through the disguise (knowledge skills, magic, qualified guess, etc...)

 

[TheEvil]

In my opinion, the favored enemy bonuses apply because the ranger knows (for instance) how to act against them in combat--how to anticipate their moves. If the ranger, for whatever reason, doesn't realize that she's fighting an "evil outsider" then she shouldn't get the bonuses. If a dragon is disguised, it makes no sense that the ranger would fight as though she were facing a dragon unless she saw through the disguise (knowledge skills, magic, qualified guess, etc...)

Don't you think Rangers get little enough use out of their Favored Enemy ability as it is? Since the knowledge skills necessary to identify a creature are often cross-class for a ranger, and the knowledge skill checks get progressively harder with creature hit dice, I would think you would end up neutering the ability.
To be honest, I have thought that too many rangers had too little knowledge about the very creatures they hunt. Perhaps if you made the knowledge skills for identifing their favored enemies class skills and gave them their FE bonus on the check. Things to consider suggesting to my next GM...

 

[osarusan]

Well I think rangers get that ability because they know so much about the enemy. It's their *favored* enemy... so they probably know everything there is to know about it. You should be able to trust the ranger to spot the creature out of a lineup of similar-looking creatures just because he knows so much about it; what type of tracks it makes, how its breathing sounds, what it smells like... a real expert knowledge.

In a case where the monster was disguised, say by an illusion, give the ranger a chance to realize something is amiss before giving him any bonuses. Applying the bonus without telling the player seems silly, IMO. The player should *know* when his bonuses are doing their work, because his character would know tht's his favored enemy. It would feel better for the player to suddenly gain his bonuses once he realizes what he's dealing with.

 

[ThoughtfulOwl]

One way to dodge the whole problem is to use the favored environment variant from Unearthed Arcana.

 

[CRGreathouse]

One way to dodge the whole problem is to use the favored environment variant from Unearthed Arcana.

...replacing the problem with, "Is that a Forest creature? A hill-dwelling creature? An aquatic creature?".

 

[ThoughtfulOwl]

...replacing the problem with, "Is that a Forest creature? A hill-dwelling creature? An aquatic creature?".

...uhm, no; it doesn't work that way. While you are within the appropriate environment, you get the relevant bonuses all the time, regardless of who you are facing; also, the bonus is applied to Hide, Move Silently and Knowledge(nature/dungeoneering) instead of Bluff, Sense Motive and damage.

Let's say the DM calls for a Listen check. Knowing that you should apply your Favored Environment(cold or temperate forest) bonus to the check is something you can easily manage without metagaming or DM help: you just need to pay attention when the DM describes the scene; OTOH, knowing that you should apply your Favored Enemy(evil outsider) bonus because the sound you might happen to hear is caused by a demon hidden behind the bushes and disguised as a fox thanks to a Veil spell is far more far fetched.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Personally I think that a way of sidestepping the problem would be to say that the favoured enemy bonus isn't based on knowledge of creatures at all, it is a morale bonus when the ranger is facing those creatures (you might not want to make it an actual morale bonus, so they don't miss out on enhancements from their bard). Basically his motivation level increases when he is dealing with certain favoured enemies.

Thus

a) it becomes easy to decide when it applies - if the ranger knows it is one of his enemies, he gets his bonus, if he doesn't know he doesn't. Facing a Dragon he gets +2. Facing a human that is actually a dragon under an illusion, he doesn't, *unless* he knows or has deduced it is a dragon behind an illusion when he does get it.

b) It avoids the sillyness of favoured enemy human (stick 'em in the throat or the 'nads) not applying to equivalent humanoids (elf, dwarf), while favoured enemy abberations lets you get the vital points of everything from aboleths to ropers. If it isn't about striking vital points, but rather is about morale bonus to damage when fighting them, this kind of division makes more sense.

All IMO of course

 

[MadBlue]

a) it becomes easy to decide when it applies - if the ranger knows it is one of his enemies, he gets his bonus, if he doesn't know he doesn't. Facing a Dragon he gets +2. Facing a human that is actually a dragon under an illusion, he doesn't, *unless* he knows or has deduced it is a dragon behind an illusion when he does get it.

IMHO it's better as an unnamed bonus, because it leaves the reason why the creature type is a Favored Enemy to the player. My 1/2 Elf Ranger/Scout has FE (Human). He grew up among Elves, but he's utterly intrigued by his human side, so he learned as much about them as he could. I like the idea of the DM applying the bonus and dropping hints to the player. If the Ranger in your example had FE (Human) and faced what he thought was a human but was actually a dragon under an illusion, would you give him the bonus because he thinks it's a human? What if he had both FE (Human) and FE (Dragon), which would apply?

b) It avoids the sillyness of favoured enemy human (stick 'em in the throat or the 'nads) not applying to equivalent humanoids (elf, dwarf), while favoured enemy abberations lets you get the vital points of everything from aboleths to ropers. If it isn't about striking vital points, but rather is about morale bonus to damage when fighting them, this kind of division makes more sense.

It's no longer precision-based damage in 3.5. The Rogue corners the nad-sticking market. And only a Rogue knows where a Beholder's nads are.

Regarding knowing things about Favored Enemies, I treat the appropriate Knowledge skill as untrained where it regards a Favored Enemy and add the Ranger's FE and Intelligence bonus.

MadBlue

 

[ThirdWizard]

Hmm, I'll probably add the bonuses without telling her, making occasional mentions that she finds his movements easy to follow and other subtle hints. This worries me, though, becuase I'm prone to forget these things, though I do try to put a favored enemy in every adventure.

This brings up another point which I had completely overlooked since it hasn't happened to me. What if the enemy looks like your favored enemy and they arn't?

So if your favored enemy is human and you're fighting an elf illusioned (is that a word) to look like an human? They shouldn't get the bonuses, but do you tell them that? Or do you let them add it, then subtract them yourself... But they should recognise it's acting unlike normal members of its kind right?

Hey, what about a human raised in orc society, living with orcs they're whole life? Should Favored Enemy: orc work against them? Okay now I'm being silly.

 

[Plane Sailing]

One way to dodge the whole problem is to use the favored environment variant from Unearthed Arcana.

I think that is a woeful variant - losing the damage bonus makes the ability suck-tastic. It is the damage bonus against favoured enemies which allows rangers to kick butt with the rest of the fighter types.