Is it DnD, or MtG? (General Griping)

[fredramsey]

Yawn. It's starting to get to where you can't tell what thread you're in.

There's always someone whining about there being books that they don't want that other people buy.

Hmmm. Sounds like the moral majority, eh?

 

[Algolei]

Hmmm. Sounds like the moral majority, eh?

Wouldn't it be the moral minority?

Nothing wrong with minorities complaining about injustices if it'll help to correct 'em.

 

[Storyteller01]

Besides, how do you know a problem exists if no one says anything (that whole perception thing)

 

[francisca]

That's a good thing!

The rules are there for those who want/need them. They can be ignored by those who don't wan't/need them. They can be easily tweaked or replaced by those who don't want to do so. It's just a more complete toolset for the rules-oriented, and gives a more structured framework for the story-oriented to work in.

For the record, I intended, and tried to make that statement as neutral as possible.

Personally, I can play either style. I see boons and banes on both. Some would call this moral relativism.

 

[Umbran]

It is important not to blame the rules for the way people play the game, when the rules don't force the issue. In a game whose history is filled with house-ruling, the rules can force virtually nothing. How easy the current rules make a thing is not important. The players are still free-willed, thinking entities, and are therefore responsible for their own actions.

Powergaming is as old as gaming. Such attitudes were not created or even notably fostered by the current rules. Some people simply like that sort of game, and that's okay.

 

[WayneLigon]

Is it me, or do these new DnD rules (3.0 & 3.5) seem to be going the way of Magic: the Gathering?

Now it's "if you mix this with that, and add some of tihs, no one can touch you!!"

I think that you'd get that with any unified rules system and with any system that offers more choices.

Before, so few campaigns used the same rules set beyond the very basics that it was hard for anyone to really collaborate across campaigns. It's been my experience that most 3E games don't use much in the way of house rules save in certain 'flavor' areas, so it's easier for player to share info.

There really wasn't a reason to sit down and consider a 'good' fighter build because a fighter was a fighter was a fighter from campaign to campaign. Now with all the various options and choices there will be - as with all such systems - some choices that are better than others if your goal is to create a character that exploits the rules to the best advantage.

 

[Akrasia]

... Personally, I can play either style. I see boons and banes on both. Some would call this moral relativism.

Well I certainly would not call your position "moral relativism", as "moral relativism" is a hopelessly incoherent position held by people with no knowledge of meta-ethics, whereas your position is perfectly intelligible and plausible.

That there are advantages and disadvantages to both kinds of games is a perfectly non-relativistic observation.

And a position with which I concur.

 

[Storyteller01]

It is important not to blame the rules for the way people play the game, when the rules don't force the issue. In a game whose history is filled with house-ruling, the rules can force virtually nothing. How easy the current rules make a thing is not important. The players are still free-willed, thinking entities, and are therefore responsible for their own actions.

Powergamign is as old as gaming. Such attitudes were not created or even notably fostered by the current rules. Some people simply like that sort of game, and that's okay.

But this is the same as saying "just because a calculator is available for calculus, doesn't mean you have to use it."

If you want to play with any real chance of survivablility or use any new products(barring DM intervention), you'll need to follow the system, and not the concept or storyline you want (power attack chains vs Improved Critical is a good example).

What I'm worried about is the situation that MtG has, mainy how quickly mechanics change with each set or edition, especially with 'if this new product comes out, how will it effect the base rules. The answer: change the rules'.

I'm worried that WotC will make continual changes as new ideas come into play, going into 4th or 5th editions rather than creating optional sourcebooks. That's good for MtG (I don't mind spending a few extra dollars for new rules or cards, but I don't play in competitions either), but for D&D?

'meet the new and improved 4th edition, only $40 per book. By the way, this is the new canon, and all other books will be reprinted accordingly'.

Anyone follow as to what my concerns are?

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I don't miss AD&D as a ruleset at all... but I've often said about 3.0/3.5 "This is just like Magic: The Purchasing", and I don't recall meaning it as a compliment....(snip)

I also like to refer to it as "Money: The Gathering"

Olaf the Stout

 

[francisca]

But this is the same as saying "just because a calculator is available for calculus, doesn't mean you have to use it."

If you want to play with any real chance of survivablility or use any new products(barring DM intervention), you'll need to follow the system, and not the concept or storyline you want (power attack chains vs Improved Critical is a good example).

What I'm worried about is the situation that MtG has, mainy how quickly mechanics change with each set or edition, especially with 'if this new product comes out, how will it effect the base rules. The answer: change the rules'.

I'm worried that WotC will make continual changes as new ideas come into play, going into 4th or 5th editions rather than creating optional sourcebooks. That's good for MtG (I don't mind spending a few extra dollars for new rules or cards, but I don't play in competitions either), but for D&D?

'meet the new and improved 4th edition, only $40 per book. By the way, this is the new canon, and all other books will be reprinted accordingly'.

Anyone follow as to what my concerns are?

Well, if it's just you and your pals in the basement, you can play however you want. The situation is totally different in organized play however. I wonder what impact the complete books are having on those playing in LG?

I think this provides the closest parallel to Magic, casual vs. tournament play.