Pathfinder 2E Is it fun to play a caster in PF2?

Thomas Shey

Legend
I think you dont understand, it was every opponent, how spellcasting worked in that edition was, if you lose initiative and you were casting a spell, if you got hit at all the spell dropped and it was gone, you lost the spell slot and the spell will not go off.

like unless your team really makes a good defensive position, hell if they have decent ranged attacks this was a total issue lol.

I should note there was not a thing in OD&D at least that said word one about spellcasters losing spells when hit. Being hit was bad because you had really cruddy hit points, but again, that still required that opponents could get to you easily and/or had ranged attacks. That got progressively harder after you got to 5th level because of various spells that became available.

(Now, you can argue that there was far more variation here depending on what specific spells were available, but early on given how common scrolls were as treasure, that required a GM to proactively avoid making certain spells available for it not to be true. Outdoors something as simple as Levitation could make a mage effectively immune to opponents without ranged attacks, and Protection Normal Missiles could screen out many opponents ability to harm him completely. These were second and third level spells respectively).
 

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nevin

Hero
I think you dont understand, it was every opponent, how spellcasting worked in that edition was, if you lose initiative and you were casting a spell, if you got hit at all the spell dropped and it was gone, you lost the spell slot and the spell will not go off.

like unless your team really makes a good defensive position, hell if they have decent ranged attacks this was a total issue lol.

spells had a lot more drawbacks in 1e than any edition since. Here's 1e stoneskin.

ExplanationlDescription: When this spell is cast, the affected creature
gains a virtual immunity to any attack by cut, blow, projectile or
the like. Thus, even a sword of sharpness would not affect a creature
protected by stoneskin, nor would a rock hurled by a giant, a snake’s
strike, etc. However, magic attacks from such spells as fireball, magic
missile, lightning bolt, and so forth would have normal effect. Any attack
or attack sequence from a single opponent dispels the dweomer,
although it makes the creature immune to that single attack or attack
sequence. Attacks with relatively soft weapons, such as a monk’s
hands, an ogrillon’s fist, etc, will inflict 1-2 points of damage on the attacker
for each such attack while the attacked creature is protected
by the stoneskin spell, but will not dispel the dweomer. The material
components of the spell are granite and diamond dust sprinkled on
the recipient’s skin.
 

nevin

Hero
spells had a lot more drawbacks in 1e than any edition since. Here's 1e stoneskin.



ExplanationlDescription: When this spell is cast, the affected creature
gains a virtual immunity to any attack by cut, blow, projectile or
the like. Thus, even a sword of sharpness would not affect a creature
protected by stoneskin, nor would a rock hurled by a giant, a snake’s
strike, etc. However, magic attacks from such spells as fireball, magic
missile, lightning bolt, and so forth would have normal effect. Any attack
or attack sequence from a single opponent dispels the dweomer,
although it makes the creature immune to that single attack or attack
sequence. Attacks with relatively soft weapons, such as a monk’s
hands, an ogrillon’s fist, etc, will inflict 1-2 points of damage on the attacker
for each such attack while the attacked creature is protected
by the stoneskin spell, but will not dispel the dweomer. The material
components of the spell are granite and diamond dust sprinkled on
the recipient’s skin.


So you could have stoneskin up and one punch by a humanoid would still inflict 1-2 pts of damage and disrupt whatever spell you were casting. I actually had a DM in 2e where it was 1 attack per spell level, have an entire guild of rogues throw rocks at me. 30 rogues 10 hits 10 pts of damage no more stoneskin. And even in 3e and beyond it depends on if the mage has the right spells prepared. Which means in Dungeon crawls high level mages tend to be incredibly powerful because they know in general what to prepare. In a heavy RP game a mage may not have a single useful spell if the encounter doesn't go as predicted.
 

nevin

Hero
Also remember the combat round was in segments. Each spell took x number of segments. If your initiative was slow enough you might not finish casting your spell until sometime the next combat round. Now if the melee attack hit before you started casting your spell was safe. But if you were really unlucky you'd risk getting hit at the end of the round and the beginning of the round before you got your spell off.
Then we can go into surprise and the fact that whoever got surprise got one full round attack per segment they surprised you by. So if surprised the enemy could get 2,3, or more full rounds of attacks on you before you even got to react. Spellcasting in 1e forced teamwork far more than pathfinder ever did.
 


FallenRX

Adventurer
I should note there was not a thing in OD&D at least that said word one about spellcasters losing spells when hit. Being hit was bad because you had really cruddy hit points, but again, that still required that opponents could get to you easily and/or had ranged attacks. That got progressively harder after you got to 5th level because of various spells that became available.

(Now, you can argue that there was far more variation here depending on what specific spells were available, but early on given how common scrolls were as treasure, that required a GM to proactively avoid making certain spells available for it not to be true. Outdoors something as simple as Levitation could make a mage effectively immune to opponents without ranged attacks, and Protection Normal Missiles could screen out many opponents ability to harm him completely. These were second and third level spells respectively).
Idk about ODND(74), but every other older edition had this.
B/X/BECMI/ADnD 1e and 2e. and that was the versions i was references.

ODnD rules were a bit weird since it was played with chainmail and such
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
Idk about ODND(74), but every other older edition had this.
B/X/BECMI/ADnD 1e and 2e. and that was the versions i was references.

ODnD rules were a bit weird since it was played with chainmail and such

I know any number of people who transferred from OD&D to AD&D who probably never bothered to change. Far as that goes, I've never had much sign that most AD&D players ever bothered with the segmented rounds.

Now, you can argue this was "not playing the game as written" but I still think that acting like, in practice, it still didn't mean mages weren't overpowered in the field requires a theoretical approach that doesn't seem like it had much to do with how the game was routinely played.
 

FallenRX

Adventurer
I know any number of people who transferred from OD&D to AD&D who probably never bothered to change. Far as that goes, I've never had much sign that most AD&D players ever bothered with the segmented rounds.

Now, you can argue this was "not playing the game as written" but I still think that acting like, in practice, it still didn't mean mages weren't overpowered in the field requires a theoretical approach that doesn't seem like it had much to do with how the game was routinely played.
This rule...doesnt have much to to with segments, its how initiative was handled lol.
Most people who play in the OSR still run it like that in my experiences.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
This rule...doesnt have much to to with segments, its how initiative was handled lol.
Most people who play in the OSR still run it like that in my experiences.

Most people in the OSR have much more dedication to rules sets of a particular age than people did who were playing it when those rules sets were new. Though I do have to note your "in my experience" is doing some heavy lifting, there.
 

Andvari

Hero
I played in a bunch of BECMI groups back then and also DMed. Common house rules were negative HP, critical hits and the dreaded critical fumbles. I didn't experience spell disruption being house ruled away. Not sure what the purpose of that would be, so it seems a strange house ruling to add.
 
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