Is it time for a low-magic setting?

[big dummy]

Have to say, between Midnight, Thieve's World, Black Company, Game of Thrones, Conan, and Iron Heroes, I think I'm pretty well supplied on low magic d20 settings.

That said, I'm always cool with seeing new things.

Like I said, i see "Gutboy Barrelhouse" as a way to tie all these together.

BD

 

[hong]

Like I said, i see "Gutboy Barrelhouse" as a way to tie all these together.

BD

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

 

[Gold Roger]

No, because:

-There are already many such settings by other companies

-It would require deriviations from the Core books, something wizards isn't really willing to do (and shouldn't be, that's what the ogl is for)

-Any other setting would splinter WotC's recourses. The many different settings are said to be one of the reasons TSR went down

-Personal oppinion, but low power/low magic D&D is booring. I've tried such a campaign recently. While certainly an interesting setting to play in, the gameplay sucked. No phat loot. Killing crime bosses at level 4. When reduced to low magic/power, the D&D magic system just seems bland.

-A slight degression from FR and Ebberon still mostly within standart paradigms wouldn't be enough. There would have to be more to the setting to catch attention. But that again would be to "weird" for most people that want loe power/magic. These people generally seek the standart fantasy D&D just can't offer.

-Many low power/magic guys are also devout world builders. They play homebrew anyway.

What I could see would be a big book(FR Campaign Setting calibre) by wotc with guidelines help, etc to bring D&D in line with more standart fantasy/lower power. If well done I could see such a book selling like crazy.

 

[big dummy]

Low-magic can mean too many things. It could be at least:

- very few people in the world know how to cast spells

- very few people in the world know how to cast powerful spells

- spells do not go beyond a certain power (lower than standard D&D)

- very few magic items exist in the world

- only minor magic items exist

- spells/items are dangerous or very expensive to use, hence they can be used much less often

You can combine these in many ways, a low-magic setting would need to make a specific choice, and inevitably end up with more people unsatisfied than satisfied by such a choice, whatever it was.

Actually, even on one "planet", you could I think encompass quite a range of magic density and magic availability. As an analogy, think of the diversity of our own planet, and the different available levels of technology between say, 15th century France, Greece, Japan, China, Central America, and Sub-Saharan Africa... or think of the distrubution of Iron around say 200 BC in the same areas.

Just as with technology in the real world, one kingdom or region might have fairly high levels of magic and saturation across society, some might have it but only in the hands of the elites, and some areas might not have it available at all.

What I would like to see is a general "lower magic" setting which could incorporate ideally several worlds (or planes?) which could address a wide range of Lower magic campaigns or sub-settings, from very low to medium.

BD

 

[big dummy]

No.

3.x rules are not suitable for low magic.

QFT.

To do a truly low magic setting - one where the party actually reflects this, as in the party doesn't have three or four spell casters in it - would require a major overhaul of the rules.

I, too, believe the 3.5e rules are not really suited for low-magic play.

For the record, this is exactly the kind of attitude I find worrisome in D&D today. Who says the D&D rules have to be interpreted so narrowly? Why does balance trump every other reason for playing?

::Nods:: Low magic works OK at the first few levels of play, but then the game kind of breaks down. Armor Class, for example, is problematic- Without magic items to boost it, combat gets to the point where everyone can hit everyone else all the time... Which means that your PCs are badly wounded after the first encounter, with no easy way to heal themselves afterwards in a low-magic world.

Games like True20 (with an AC that scales with level, armor that adds to toughness, and damage saves rather than HP) are better suited for such styles of play.

If a lower magic D&D setting needed to borrow some mechanics from D20 modern, or Conan, or True20, how or where would that be a problem? It would have the benefit of forming a standardized base from which some of these other systems could more comfortably connect back to the core system, IMO.

BD

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

WotC has their niche - and it is a very large one.

No, there is no need for a low-magic setting, since they exist on the market from other publishers.

WotC sets the bar on the high-magic, high-fantasy settings. Everyone else is compared to them. If WotC were to now publish their own low-magic setting, they would be the Johnny-come-lately and everyone would be comparing it to the existing ones. It is a subtle difference, but one that matters.

OK, or was I supposed to respond with the answer you would rather hear?

 

[big dummy]

-Personal oppinion, but low power/low magic D&D is booring. I've tried such a campaign recently. While certainly an interesting setting to play in, the gameplay sucked. No phat loot. Killing crime bosses at level 4. When reduced to low magic/power, the D&D magic system just seems bland.

Buddy, just because you don't like it doens't mean other folks don't.

These people generally seek the standart fantasy D&D just can't offer.

Why cant it ? LOL! This sounds like a religious sentiment. It's just a game.

-Many low power/magic guys are also devout world builders. They play homebrew anyway.

Maybe they would come back into the fold a bit more if the mainstream game addressed their needs better?

What I could see would be a big book(FR Campaign Setting calibre) by wotc with guidelines help, etc to bring D&D in line with more standart fantasy/lower power. If well done I could see such a book selling like crazy.

I dont...see... how that would be much different from exactly what I was talking about, if you just add the setting part.

BD

 

[Troll Wizard]

One of the best games I played in AD&D 2nd edition was "very" low magic. We got to 5th level and no one had any magic items! It lasted for about 6 months. It was played in the game palor in Chantilly Virgina. He was a great DM, real-life issues I believe made him move out of the area. He had a great background story for the campaign world/region, really immersive and lots of great combat.

IMO its possible to run a "low-magic" campaign now with 3.5, the DM will of course have to pick monsters wisely to challenge, but not slaughter the PCs. Also of course adjust the monster's CR and adjust the experience gained.

Otherwise it would take a dedicated book published by WOTC for either of my two groups (16 adult players total) to buy it. Only myself and one other player ever purchase 3rd party books, and that's only a few.

 

[big dummy]

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

Hong, it means whatever you want it to. Put it in your tea cup and let it seep.

BD

 

[big dummy]

I think a low magic and low power setting is a good idea. I use that kind of homebrew campaign, and I notice a lot of other people do, too.

The (potential) magic doens't even have to be that low as long as the status quo NPC level of the setting is relativly low. I notice a lot of people like Ebberon's low-level npc demographics, that kind of logic applied more comprehensivly would be a great idea.

Of course, there's nothing stopping the PC's from becoming high level in such a setting, and there can still be powerful threats- but they would be rare and world-shaking, rather than run-of-the-mill as is too often the case in the FR. High power and even mid-level PC's should be the movers and shakers of the setting, but relativly low-level NPC's could also operate as nobility and the like.

As noted, making magic and power more rare would only make it more impressive- and I don't think D&D3.x is as reliant on magical items as many would claim(especially since such a campaign could have varant rules to help redress such a minor imbalance).

Well said!

DB