Pathfinder 2E Is It Time for PF2 "Essentials"?

[Justice and Rule]

(I suspect it's because I'm not in the "incrowd" which means anything I post, even if it's the exact same thing that they agree with, will be automatically disagreed with by some, just a suspicion I've been getting over the past few months, seeing the trend of things. Only real infuriation is that while they may agree with the same item, some of the stuff that came from me is uncredited and not acknowledged that I was one of those who originally said an idea...though perhaps once again that is to avoid dislikes of because I'm not part of the "in crowd").

I'm fairly new here (relatively speaking) and I didn't feel like I got "in-crowded". I'll be honest, I haven't read your arguments (largely because I was just sort of done with this thread), but this is also the internet and when points get crossed up, people just start talking past each other. Apologies if you felt that way (even if I wasn't the one you were arguing with).

 

[Filthy Lucre]

Deleted.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Which brings up WHY?

Most people read every third word of long posts to save time & effort. Leads to interesting results.

 

[transmission89]

Most people read every third word of long posts to save time & effort. Leads to interesting results.

Or indeed put off by tone and structure of an argument. I’d happily read a long, well structured post supported with evidence and reasoned conclusions drawn from it ( Such as the one you posted the other day with your thorough analysis of market trends). Happily, even if perhaps disagreeing with aspects of a post or even the end conclusion.

Long rants with wild, speculative diversions with little to support it and hyperbolic conclusions, less so.

 

[Haffrung]

We have other ways inferring PF2’s popularity besides Roll20 numbers. Looking at Paizo’s forums, activity looks to be down substantially compared with five or six years ago. You see fewer reviews of adventure paths and other products. The adventure paths themselves, which are the calling-card of Paizo and their subscription bread-and-butter, don’t seem to be grabbing the market’s imagination. Official Pathfinder announcements and actual plays on Youtube get a few hundred views.

It seems pretty clear that the remarkable growth in the tabletop RPG market in recent years has been almost entirely in D&D, with a bit of spillover to second tier systems and indie RPGs. I doubt Paizo is close to collapse, but Pathfinder no longer stands apart in a second tier below D&D and above games like Call of Cthulhu and WFRP. There’s D&D and everything else, and PF2 now falls into the everything else camp.

It wasn’t crazy for Paizo to believe a rising tide lifts all boats, and that it could position itself on the shoulder of D&D as the advanced alternative to the most popular RPG in the world. But there just doesn’t seem to be a market in 2021 for highly crunchy tabletop RPGs built around optimization. The new customers who have flocked to the hobby are overwhelmingly looking for lighter, accessible systems.

 

[Justice and Rule]

We have other ways inferring PF2’s popularity besides Roll20 numbers. Looking at Paizo’s forums, activity looks to be down substantially compared with five or six years ago. You see fewer reviews of adventure paths and other products. The adventure paths themselves, which are the calling-card of Paizo and their subscription bread-and-butter, don’t seem to be grabbing the market’s imagination. Official Pathfinder announcements and actual plays on Youtube get a few hundred views.

I mean, Paizo's forum decreasing in traffic (I don't know how this is being measured, but let's take it) might well correlate with people moving to other platforms like Reddit (where the community is still growing). Paizo's Youtube has never gotten all that many views anyways: most of their videos even going back half a decade tended to be around 2K, with the biggest exceptions being the very first few videos regarding Pathfinder's first releases. And I dunno how much reviews actually relate to traffic.

Like, are there actual numbers to his or is it just feelings?

It seems pretty clear that the remarkable growth in the tabletop RPG market in recent years has been almost entirely in D&D, with a bit of spillover to second tier systems and indie RPGs. I doubt Paizo is close to collapse, but Pathfinder no longer stands apart in a second tier below D&D and above games like Call of Cthulhu and WFRP. There’s D&D and everything else, and PF2 now falls into the everything else camp.

It wasn’t crazy for Paizo to believe a rising tide lifts all boats, and that it could position itself on the shoulder of D&D as the advanced alternative to the most popular RPG in the world. But there just doesn’t seem to be a market in 2021 for highly crunchy tabletop RPGs built around optimization. The new customers who have flocked to the hobby are overwhelmingly looking for lighter, accessible systems.

I feel like this is disagrees with stuff like ICv2, where there were only one stretch where Pathfinder wasn't second to D&D on the chart: when Starfinder released and when PF2 was announced. Since PF2 released, it's still in its second place position while everything beneath it shuffles up and down. Heck, even Cyberpunk didn't manage to top it even with its video game coming out.

Really glad that the Alien RPG seems to have some staying power. They need to give me my damn Colonial Marines Expansion PDF, though. I'm itching for it and it's well past the two weeks they said it'd be out in.

 

[fearsomepirate]

I believe ICV2 lumps PF1 and PF2 together.

 

[Justice and Rule]

I believe ICV2 lumps PF1 and PF2 together.

Sure, but I have to wonder how much of that share is PF1, given that so many books are basically out-of-stock or non-mint on Paizo's own store. I'm not sure that could really prop up the sales at this point, but I could be wrong.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Sure, but I have to wonder how much of that share is PF1, given that so many books are basically out-of-stock or non-mint on Paizo's own store. I'm not sure that could really prop up the sales at this point, but I could be wrong.

Who knows? P2 content outranks P1 content on Amazon, so my guess is the bulk of it is P2 now. FG and Roll20 both show P2 is about equally popular with P1 now, and since P1 players probably aren't buying new core rulebooks, that's a second suggestive piece of information.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Who knows? P2 content outranks P1 content on Amazon, so my guess is the bulk of it is P2 now. FG and Roll20 both show P2 is about equally popular with P1 now, and since P1 players probably aren't buying new core rulebooks, that's a second suggestive piece of information.

No, absolutely. No argument here.