Is it wrong for NPCs to block a 'detect evil' check by a PC?

[reanjr]

I think the problem is in assuming that every evil NPC is a megalomaniacal or sadistic fiend. Truth is, it would be fair to assume that 1/3 of the farmers one comes across are evil. So detect evil doesn't really tell you much. If the evil character is masquerading as a cleric of a good deity or some such thing, you could definitely uncover the lie, but in general, detecting an evil character isn't going to indicate whether or not the NPC wishes to do you or others harm or is a criminal.

PCs who act on this information could end up being the evil ones.

Example:
PCs approached by a knight (War 1/Ari 2) who wishes to hire the PCs to capture and/or kill a murderer who has plagued the peasantry. This knight is a mean-spirited individual who takes advantage of his people, routinely tortures captured soldiers for enjoyment, and has a tendency to beat his wife when he gets drunk. Neutral evil. But he also tries to uphold the knightly virtues and honestly cares for his charge (the peasants). Party detects evil on him to see if he might have ulterior motives. Comes up faint evil. PCs refuse to work for him and the murders continue.

Harsher example:
PCs are in a tavern that they frequent when a commoner comes rushing in calling them to break up an enraged duel taking place in the streets. They come out to find two armed men bloody and exhausted in the street, attempting to kill one another. PCs detect evil (and good) to come to a conclusion over the aggressor (both insist it is the other man's fault and that the fight is unprovoked). The PCs help the good guy and have the evil one arrested. Well, turns out that rumormongering had led the good man to believe the evil one had been sleeping with his wife. As soon as he heard this, his normally virtuous heart was driven to rage and he attacked the evil man, who was trying to defend himself.

As for individuals who are actively masquerading as Good, it makes sense for them to hide their alignment or mask it as something else.

Also keep in mind that detection spells may well be illegal in civilized society as invasion of privacy. So blocking detection in and of itself may just be considered privacy security and not a sign that someone is trying to hide their evil alignment.

 

[reanjr]

Good aligned ruling bodies do not grant their citizens the right to be evil.

I think any ruling body that actively roots out evil aligned character can only be considered Lawful Evil. Evil alignment is not indicative of past criminal transgressions or criminal intent. To punish those whose only crime is to have internal urges of malice is itself an act of great evil.

 

[Vegepygmy]

By being a cynical bastard about human society. In my Eberron game, the paladin is free to detect evil all the time. But experience has taught him that about 20% or so of people in society are evil, so detecting evil doesn't help that much.

Only 20 percent? Hmph. The DMG suggests that 50 percent of NPCs should be evil. I don't think you're as cynical about human society as you think!

No, detect evil is really not much good at revealing anything relevant about people.

QFT.

 

[Geoff Watson]

I think any ruling body that actively roots out evil aligned character can only be considered Lawful Evil. Evil alignment is not indicative of past criminal transgressions or criminal intent. To punish those whose only crime is to have internal urges of malice is itself an act of great evil.

I disagree. Alignment is derived from past actions. Someone who has done enough consistent Evil for their alignment to become Evil deserves to be smited.

Geoff.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Only 20 percent? Hmph. The DMG suggests that 50 percent of NPCs should be evil. I don't think you're as cynical about human society as you think!

20% or 50% is way too high IMO. Over 90% would be neutral, with only those who are strongly aligned being non-neutral.

Geoff.

 

[reanjr]

I disagree. Alignment is derived from past actions. Someone who has done enough consistent Evil for their alignment to become Evil deserves to be smited.

Geoff.

Well, according to the RAW, one can expect to find significant minority populations of evil individuals in the halfling and human races. Humans don't have a monster entry, but one can assume that their alignment would be listed as "often neutral" which would mean about 25% or more of them were evil. I don't think 25% of the population deserves to be smitten.

If you go changing the demographics rules on alignment, it is easy to expect other rules (such as detect evil) to break down a little.

 

[wmasters]

I'd handle this, as has been suggested by having more evil NPCs around. After all, killing an innocent merchant in the street, without fair trial or evidence of any crime, is certainely an evil act as I see it, and would lead to a stern telling off, a smacked bottom and no dinner from Him Upstairs. And a revoking of abilities if it's repeated.

After all, an evil merchant might be evil because he sits up at night planning the murder of his competitor and laughing maniacally behind closed doors, even though he knows he doesn't have the guts to actually go through with it.

Now the paladin probably won't want to associate with them, but what happens when it's an evil spy that he needs information from, or the blacksmith in the town who's going to make his +5 vorpal holy avenger sword of almighty fiery death is actually Lawful Evil. Put him in situations where he needs the help of someone evil, and see what happens.

I'm with the idea that a large % of the population are evil, certainely 20% doesn't sound too high, and I could quite happily go with the idea that 50% are..

 

[reanjr]

I'm with the idea that a large % of the population are evil, certainely 20% doesn't sound too high, and I could quite happily go with the idea that 50% are..

Wow, are people really that cynical? I wouldn't expect more than 33% evil (probably a bit less, more neutral than good or evil).

 

[Azalnubizar]

well, for one thing I am not overly fond of the alignment-system used in D&D.
We - as a group - agreed, that we will try to use it anyway... do have our problems with it in regular intervalls...

now - as I do understand it, I do agree with the previous opinions, that you can't just kill anybody who is evil, since this would be a quite large percentage of all the people.

Furthermore - how would you feel living in a society where your personal thoughts could lead to your execution?

About the casting of spells... well... the problem seems to be the paladin's special ability (spell-like ability). He'd have to look at the target for 18 seconds... and he would need to concentrate... this might be noticed but can mostly be done without noticing.

Even if it is noticed, it isn't prove yet that the person is casting a spell at you.
But I think it is a good idea to have others use their own concept on them - first have them checked by a few good paladins... see how they react.
Later mix in a few evil guys...

Therefore I think we can agree that except for Evil-dominated goverments you cannot prosecute people with evil auras. The act of checking ones Aura might be taken as offence but will mostly not be recogniced as such.

Last - as also mentioned previously - I would give them a bit more to gnaw at and to not allways trust their "detect evil" abilities. I think, one of the best spells for this is the second level wizard spell called "misdirection". With this spell he can easily make himself appear as good. With another use of misdirection you can a good man appear as evil... if your group really trusts so much in their detect evil ability... some evil mind could probably try and manipulate them pretty easily with this spell.

 

[Numion]

In Grymwurld some years ago, a paladin suspected that the Grand Master of the Red Knights of MARS was evil. So when given a chance, he intently stared at the Grand Master. The Grand Master noticed the staring, smiled and looking directly into the eyes of the paladin said "Yes, I'm evil. What are you going to do about it?" By this time, the paladin realised the true extent of the evil. . . and passed out.

I don't think there's a need for intense stares and such when using Paladins Detect Evil, however dramatic those might be. It requires concentration, not staring. I can see it easily being used in a meeting with suspected badguys without anyone being the wiser.

Pretend to be sleeping while squinting your eyes (half-sleep is pretty common in meetings IRL), or crouch down a little to "tie your laces / bootstraps", or pretend to read his fortunes from palm, or concentrate behind a full face helm while your companions say you're mute, or pretend constipation, or say you're detecting scrying, or fall under the table and say you're looking for a ring you dropped and do it from there (ok, that's a bit strange), or make even the obvious stare and say it's your cultures normal greeting - staring for 18 seconds straight!

As you can see it would be quite easy to discreetly check on people.