Is Jack Bauer LG?

[green slime]

Well... I would argue that we don't carry moral responsibility for the actions of others, only of ourselves. Since the paladin isn't opening the portal, and isn't killing those people, the choice is between not acting to stop it (Neutral, as inaction always is), or torturing the family (Evil). This leads to the counter-intuitive conclusion that the 'right' thing to do is allow the slaughter of millions.

While your premise is correct, your conclusion is false; there are other alternative routes you can take in order to deal with the opening of the gate.

The choices are:
Aiding Wizard (Evil)
Torture Family (Evil)
Do Nothing (At best Neutral, but possibly Evil, if you inaction is due to your profitting from the situation arising)
Recruit Family to sway wizard (Good)
Convincing the Demons that it is all a Devilish trap, so they fear to enter the gate. (Difficult)
Subverting the magic of the Gate so it connects to another plane. (Depends on the nature of the plane)
Defeating the demons as they enter, and closing the Gate by some method X.

 

[delericho]

While your premise is correct, your conclusion is false; there are other alternative routes you can take in order to deal with the opening of the gate.

The choices are:
Aiding Wizard (Evil)
Torture Family (Evil)
Do Nothing (At best Neutral, but possibly Evil, if you inaction is due to your profitting from the situation arising)
Recruit Family to sway wizard (Good)
Convincing the Demons that it is all a Devilish trap, so they fear to enter the gate. (Difficult)
Subverting the magic of the Gate so it connects to another plane. (Depends on the nature of the plane)
Defeating the demons as they enter, and closing the Gate by some method X.

True. I was deliberately ignoring other options, because the problem only really works if it's an 'impossible' choice. The wise paladin would, of course, seek out other alternatives to the problem, and only consider the torture of innocents once all else had failed.

Actually, this reminds me of a very similar decision faced by Optimus Prime in the Transformers episode "The Ultimate Doom": The Decepticons have found a way to transport Cybertron to Earth, and it comes down to pressing a button to activate the bridge. Megatron informs Prime that he must push the button, or Cybertron will be destroyed. Naturally, if Cybertron is transported, the gravitational forces will eventually tear the Earth apart.

Prime presses the button, and then spends his time trying to undo the damage he has caused.

 

[Gothic_Demon]

Well... I would argue that we don't carry moral responsibility for the actions of others, only of ourselves. Since the paladin isn't opening the portal, and isn't killing those people, the choice is between not acting to stop it (Neutral, as inaction always is), or torturing the family (Evil). This leads to the counter-intuitive conclusion that the 'right' thing to do is allow the slaughter of millions.

I'd have to agree here, and add that a person should follow their own moral code, and work to prevent others offending it. Thus a good person should do good things and try to stop other people doing bad things. As long as the actions you take in stopping people doing bad things don't offend your moral code, then you're on your way.
If taking actions that do offend your moral code are the only way to stop the bad guy, then you can't stop it, you just have to pick up the pieces afterwards. Otherwise, it's not a moral code as you ignore it when you feel you need to.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Since the paladin isn't opening the portal, and isn't killing those people, the choice is between not acting to stop it (Neutral, as inaction always is)

This thread is bizarre and a little scary to me.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

A willingness to let evil go by unchallenged is to be complicit in that evil oneself.

 

[Banshee16]

What book? I'd be curiou to read something that awful

Oh On topic -- jack is Lawful Evil

Lawful becuase of his desire to protect the USA evil because torture in D&D is always EVIL according to the book of vile darkness

It is permissibale for evil people to be decent, likeable and interesting. It doesn't make em less evil though

The book was "A Secret Atlas" by Michael Stackpole. It's a thinly veiled fantasy based off of some of the ideas from the book "The Year China Discovered the World", I think. The characters are basically European, but they use all kinds of Chinese words, have these massive ships, etc.

It was pretty good. The sequel, Cartomancy, was just released, but I'll wait for it in paperback.

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

One of things that I find most fascinating about the show is that, given the same resources and capabilities, and placed in the same situation, I would probably make exactly the same decisions Jack does. In virtually all cases, I see the things that he does as necessary. But I still think they're evil.

Then you're being honest with yourself

The danger is when people convince themselves they're doing good, because they're a good person, and they can't do evil.

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

This thread is bizarre and a little scary to me.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

A willingness to let evil go by unchallenged is to be complicit in that evil oneself.

Two wrongs don't make a right...

So there

If resorting to evil is the only way to stop evil, then it's not much of a solution. The characters can all be evil together, and it will just be one big cruel campaign world.

Banshee

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Two wrongs don't make a right...

So there

I think you misread me.

I was objecting to the notion that doing nothing and allowing suffering to go on is ever going to be a moral answer, either in life or in a game.

<---- was in Bosnia in the 1990s

If resorting to evil is the only way to stop evil, then it's not much of a solution.

There is never just one solution to a problem.

 

[green slime]

<---- was in Bosnia in the 1990s

What were you doing there?

 

[Nomad4life]

Wait a minute... Jack’s alignment doesn’t really matter; his character has simply run out of sanity points.