Let's Talk About Defining Player Characters

[Reynard]

Have you played / read either Shadow of the Demon Lord / Weird Wizard? Their career based character development is very interesting.

I own SotDL and skimmed it when I thought I was going to able to convince my group to play it. I should read it in more depth.

 

[aramis erak]

[NOTE: this is another thread in my ongoing series to explore and discuss various aspects of TTRPGs as I work toward a foundation for my own RPG. Thanks for participating. Even if we disagree it will be helpful.]

There are lots of ways to define PCs in TTRPGs, from classes and levels to skill based systems to tags and descriptors, not to mention games that combine these in different ways. And of course lots of RPGs use their own jargon to rename, redefine, and refocus any or all of these elements.

So how do you feel about the different ways PCs are defined in roleplaying games? Do you like clear archetypes like classes? Do you prefer an a la cart approach? What about "point buy" versus "rolled" attributes or whatever? Does it matter what genre the game is in? How does the way we define PCs impact play?

Part and parcel with defining the PCs is "leveling up" -- that is, character advancement. So let's talk about this here, too.

Thanks!

My preference is for purchased abilities, with atts, skills, and maybe special abilities (I like L5R 5e better than all earlier L5R, and earlier L5R better than ANY D&D).
I don't mind classes provided they just set costs for skills and powers, á la Alternity or Rolemaster, or set what purchased advancements count for access to further abilities (L5R5). Or in WWG games where it sets only the range of special abilities one can purchase.
I like at least 4, no more than 11, attributes, and prefer strength and health be on different attributes.
I like best games with 16 to 25 skills, but open ended specialization within those. I can handle YZE typical 12,,, but it feels a bit low.

 

[BenjaminPey]

My preference goes to words. Organized by themes, as seen in City of Mist, Otherscape and Legend in the Mist, it's ideal. But the simplified version one could see in Lady Blackbird works, too.
Framed like that, character evolution takes another meaning, one that I prefer, because it feels real. The characters evolve, they change with the fiction, according to it. They don't simply get better with more skills and powers and better stats (and often they don't get better, they simply change).

The "concept" of the Cypher System is a bit barebone but quite handy if you're in a hurry: I'm an adjective noun who verb.

Otherwise, when I want to play a fantasy story of small characters who rise up to the challenge, zero to hero, in other words when progression, rather than evolution, is the goal, classes and levels all the way.

 

[Retros_x]

As much as the kid in me loves rolled stats, when you do that, unless you've got some really trustworthy players, you're going to have people showing up to play with their highest stat of 11 and someone with no stat lower than 14.

Half the fun of rolling is rolling at the table with everyone involved! At least thats why I do in games where we roll.

Slow scaling of the baseline features acquired at character creation (15-20% times increase in potency or frequency every 4-5 “levels”), primarily magic item progression, and unlockable boons/feats/“prestige classes” would be my ideal. Not necessarily all the options in the game, of course, unless it’s a pretty crunchy game.

This sounds intriguing, do you have a system that fullfills this vision of complex creation and simple/roguelike feature based progression?

I know folks hate the word immersion, but I feel like defined characters adds to the setting you are looking to play in. So, as a system is built, I think if the definitions lead to characters that are easy to envision in such a world or place helps aid gaming mindset of everyone at the table. I definitely "build" characters around the concepts I want to explore in the genre, and find a hard time getting into the experience in generic classless systems that are made to be one size fits all.

Absolutely agree. Tropes and clichés work very well in TTRPG because they give an easy reference/frame for the players that they can use as a baseline for roleplay. Thats why - to not only ask questions, but answer the threads question - I definitely prefer classes that have distinct gameplay and a distinct feel and are based on tropes and archetypes. You can always add a twist or subversion to it if you want.

 

[TwoSix]

This sounds intriguing, do you have a system that fullfills this vision of complex creation and simple/roguelike feature based progression?

I wish I did! Most games with rogue-like progression I've found are OSR/NSR games with simple resolution engines (I'm thinking games like Cairn and Knave here). Most crunchy games feature increasing player-facing decision choices all throughout the leveling process (which makes sense, considering those games are generally focused on empowering player choices).

I'm reasonably sure I'm the only person whose tastes lean this way.