Is Multiclassing Balanced?

[FireLance]

Agreed. Flexibility (inside and outside of combat - during a campaign) is far too often overlooked.

I would say that flexibility (inside and outside of combat - during a campaign) is far too often overrated.

 

[FireLance]

+35 diplomacy at 3rd? I really gotta know. How? (Not an attack or a question of veracity - just very very curious and a wish to bask in the glow of such superior number crunching)

Try the following: kalashtar [Eberron CS] psion (telepath) 1 [XPH]/marshal 1 [MiniHB]/ artificer 1 [Eberron CS] with Charisma 18, 6 ranks of Diplomacy, 5 ranks of Bluff, 5 ranks of Knowledge (nobility and royalty), 5 ranks of Sense Motive, Sacred Vow [Book of Exalted Deeds, 1st-level feat], Psicrystal Affinity (Friendly personality) [XPH, Bonus Psion feat], Skill Focus (Diplomacy) [Bonus Marshal feat], Negotiator [3rd-level feat] and glamerweave clothing [Eberron CS].

Base skill ranks: +6
Charisma bonus: +4
Synergy bonus (x3): +6
Racial bonus: +2
Psicrystal bonus: +3
Perfection bonus from Sacred Vow: +2
Skill Focus: +3
Negotiator: +2
Insight bonus from Empathy power: +2
Circumstance bonus from Minor Aura (Motivate Charisma) [Marshall class ability, adds his Charisma bonus to Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks]: +4
Circumstance bonus from Skill Enhancement artificer infusion: +2 (arguably not the same circumstance as the Minor Aura)
Circumstance bonus from glamerweave clothing: +1 (arguably not the same circumstance as the previous two)

Total modifer: +37

Less reliably, the Telemphatic Projection power can grant a +4 bonus to Diplomacy checks against a creature who fails the saving throw against the power. As an artificer, he could create and use a scroll of eagle's splendor that would increase his total bonus by another +4. He could also create and use a scroll of wieldskill [Clr 1, Magic of Faerun] to grant another +10 Competence bonus.

Total potential bonus: +55

 

[Geron Raveneye]

*speechless*

 

[jmucchiello]

With all due respect, this is part of the problem. The 3e multiclassing system, while it doesn't allow a 2e multiclassed character to translate exactly, is very easy to explain and is wonderful in its simplicity. There's a lot of virtue there.

I imagine if your friend's system were revised and streamlined, it could model the 2e multiclassing system very well. The question would then need to be asked if it could also model the level-dipping that 3e allows.

If it can do that, then he's won, and I'll buy that guy a pint.

No, it doesn't allow dipping. Remember there are some folks who find dipping distasteful. I've been planning to flatten the XP chart he created (to simplify the system) and as long as you remember that classX level + classY level does not equal character level, you just follow the chart.

OTOH, there is no reason why you couldn't use both multiclassing system simultaneously. I would never expect them to change the multiclass system from the current norm even with the problems noted in this thread.

 

[Arnwyn]

I would say that flexibility (inside and outside of combat - during a campaign) is far too often overrated.

I doubt it. Maybe somewhere, but certainly not on ENWorld.

 

[Felix]

Remember there are some folks who find dipping distasteful.

Oh, sure. Taste is a whole other can of worms. The merits of a system (including its degree of balance), however, can be discussed fairly rigorously.

there is no reason why you couldn't use both multiclassing system simultaneously.

So I could have a Cleric3/Wiz3 by your system who at next level takes a level dip into Fighter?

Or, like 2e, you choose to do your multiclassing from the beginning? So if I wanted a Ftr/Wiz, I'd need to start him that way at 1st level. After that, my only multiclass option would be to use the 3e method?

 

[jmucchiello]

So I could have a Cleric3/Wiz3 by your system who at next level takes a level dip into Fighter?

Or, like 2e, you choose to do your multiclassing from the beginning? So if I wanted a Ftr/Wiz, I'd need to start him that way at 1st level. After that, my only multiclass option would be to use the 3e method?

The latter paragraph is the correct paragraph. Sometime over the next week I'll make a proper write-up of this method.

 

[Felix]

Linky McLink when you do get it posted.

 

[Hussar]

Your C3/W3/F1 would also get whacked with an xp penalty as well. Unless he was a dwarf I suppose. Not too many players are willing to do that.

 

[Votan]

Multiclassing has gone through many variants from the days of 1e to the present. It used to be an extremely restrictive, yet powerful option. Nowadays it remains powerful, but not so restrictive. However gone are the days when warrior-mages can stand toe-to-toe with the best fighters and mages at the same time. The spellcasters is a less common multiclass option in 3e than the warrior, who often splashes several melee classes together to improve his saving throws and skill points and to increase his assortment of class abilities. So what do you think, En World? Is multiclassing a balanced mechanic, or is it still in need of fixing?

It is unbalanced (too strong) in terms of prestige classes for all groups. It is perfectly balanced for mixing non-spellcasting classes. It is almost certainly too weak for spellcasting classes as alternative options simply do not replace the higher level spells that are lost. This is a direct consequence of the non-linear progression of spellcasting power in D&D.

It doesn't apply in other d20 setting, such as Star Wars, where multi-classing is not the same sort of issue.