Pathfinder 1E Is PAIZO becoming the next Wizards?

[BryonD]

...if I want to play something different from D&D, I want it to be different and very much not-D&D.

You are doing M&M wrong.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

That said, I disagree that WotC didn't achieve that with 3E/OGL.

Despite the fervor of OGL fans on ENWorld, I don't see the OGL movement as having the same impact of the original D&D craze, the launch of M:tG, or even the ascension of White Wolf in the 90s. This place is the home forum of OGL fans, and I think they tend to overstate its relevance here. On RPGnet, or the WotC forums before 4E's announcement, you just didn't see the love for the OGL you see here.

If you agree with me and remove the OGL from the impact, 3E was merely fixing the flagship brand, not creating anything new.

 

[carmachu]

Despite the fervor of OGL fans on ENWorld, I don't see the OGL movement as having the same impact of the original D&D craze, the launch of M:tG, or even the ascension of White Wolf in the 90s. This place is the home forum of OGL fans, and I think they tend to overstate its relevance here. On RPGnet, or the WotC forums before 4E's announcement, you just didn't see the love for the OGL you see here.

Neither did the launch of 4e, by that logic.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Neither did the launch of 4e, by that logic.

It didn't. I wouldn't call 4E any more than a successful launch of a new edition of the #1 RPG in the industry.

 

[BryonD]

Despite the fervor of OGL fans on ENWorld, I don't see the OGL movement as having the same impact of the original D&D craze, the launch of M:tG, or even the ascension of White Wolf in the 90s. This place is the home forum of OGL fans, and I think they tend to overstate its relevance here. On RPGnet, or the WotC forums before 4E's announcement, you just didn't see the love for the OGL you see here.

A love for the OGL and admitting that it had an enormous impact are two different things. It was hugely relevant, even if you hate it.

If you agree with me and remove the OGL from the impact, 3E was merely fixing the flagship brand, not creating anything new.

Not many people agree with you.

That said, I came back to 3E because I found it to be an excellent game in its own right. I left 2E very early on because there were better games out there.

3E/D20 was something very new and it brought me back. The addition of the OGL driven 3PP community just turned a major success into a triple damage critical hit.

 

[carmachu]

It didn't. I wouldn't call 4E any more than a successful launch of a new edition of the #1 RPG in the industry.

I'm not sure I'd go that far withe the GSL fiasco and the digital intialive glitches at launch(I seem to recall a HUGE push over a game table and other items that didnt make release times). Its not like 3.0 launch or a few other games.

Further, I'm not sure you'd get 4e as it were without OGL, considering who was lead designer.

 

[Fifth Element]

I'm not sure I'd go that far withe the GSL fiasco and the digital intialive glitches at launch(I seem to recall a HUGE push over a game table and other items that didnt make release times). Its not like 3.0 launch or a few other games.

Your standard for "successful" seems quite high, then.

 

[carmachu]

Your standard for "successful" seems quite high, then.

Oh no. Thats not MY standard of succcessful. CasualOblivian said:

"I don't see the OGL movement as having the same impact of the original D&D craze, the launch of M:tG, or even the ascension of White Wolf in the 90s. "

So by his own standards, 4e didnt meet it either. Just holding up the game to the same metrics.

Dont get me wrong, its made WOTC money and seems successful for them. But the launch had its glitches and PR issues as well.

 

[Fifth Element]

"I don't see the OGL movement as having the same impact of the original D&D craze, the launch of M:tG, or even the ascension of White Wolf in the 90s. "

So by his own standards, 4e didnt meet it either. Just holding up the game to the same metrics.

Go back and read it again - he agreed with your point about this explicitly. And then said 4E was a "successful" launch. Given his agreement with your point, he could not have been arguing that it was "as successful" as those things. "Successful" by itself is a reasonable description of 4E's launch, I would say.

 

[Imaro]

Sorry, but I haven't drunk the OGL Kool-Aid. I realize that I'm speaking to the centerpiece of the OGL community here, but I've always been of the opinion that if I want to play D&D, I'll play D&D, and if I want to play something different from D&D, I want it to be different and very much not-D&D. The OGL does nothing for me.

Good thing the OGL doing nothing for you personally, in no way invalidates what it did for so many other gamers, game companies and the gaming industry.

As far as the phrase "drinking Kool-aid" goes, let's not go there when talking about peoples preferences, it is dismissive and insulting... but then you probably knew that already when you chose to word it in such a manner, or were you not aware of the connotations such a phrase carries?

In order for Paizo to become the next Wizards, they need to catch lightning in a bottle. In other words, they need to do something like:

1. The original D&D craze
2. White Wolf creating a goth RPG zeitgeist back in the 90s
3. M:tG launching the CCG end of hobby gaming into the stratosphere

Something like that

(I don't consider the 3E launch one of these things. It was more along the lines of a reboot than a revolution)

It's funny but I would definitely have put...

4. The saving and ressurection of the D&D game and brand, as well as the implementation of the OGL

but that's just me, I see the launch and revitalization of a dying D&D by 3e as being just as significant as any of the above.

I actually think you have the majority opinion. I don't think the typical gamer cares about the OGL that much. I mean, I used to think it was a cool idea but I came to realize it had flaws (I think WoTC gave away way too much with its GPL like standard), and that I think it inhibited creativity by taking market share away from different systems, leading to a monoculture of D&D. (Most people who say OGL use it to mean D&D-SRD based games, not the license in itself).

Wow, I must've missed the monoculture that sprang up, because I could still buy plenty of games not based on the d20 system... nWoD books, Runequest, Call of Cthulhu, Unisystem, GURPS, Qin the Warring States, PDQ, Warhammer FRPG, Reign, Savage Worlds, and so on.

Perhaps it wasn't so much a monoculture as it was you just overlooked the numerous games out there that weren't OGL based.