Is Pathfinder 2 Paizo's 4E?

[MockingBird]

Y'know, with the exception if one player who liked the Next playtest Sorcerer, nobody I knew seemed to ike it, much, but, they're mostly fine with the finished product.

I was very much afraid it was going to be an updated 4e and by that I mean keeping the "powers" and heavy focus on grid and mini's. I was digging out my old 2e books to try one last time to get a regular game going.

 

[Zardnaar]

Y'know, with the exception if one player who liked the Next playtest Sorcerer, nobody I knew seemed to ike it, much, but, they're mostly fine with the finished product.

I didn't mind the playtest, it was rough in the middle but the start and end were fun.

But the forums were negative mostly with the Avengers dumping all over it.

Paizo could design the best rules in the world, I think the main problem will be 5E existing.

In 2009 you didn't really have much choice. 4E was pushing people away PF offered a safety net.

5E isn't really pushing anyone away. The casuals seem to have left already the remaining Pathfinder players are probably fairly hardcore.

As much as people like dumping on older editions you can still have fun with them.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I would ask where in Tony's post is this mentioned?

Just requires a good enough DM.

Though, to be cynical, so long as they decide they hate the game after buying a PH, they're a sale, and as long as they actually played it, count towards that 40 million factoid.

Emphasis mine... how do you know this?

Its a given, really. New players have no knowledge of past editions' mechanics, so how 5e differs is, at most, a matter of academic interest. Either the DM runs a good enough game to hook 'am, or he doesnt.

Where 5e content pulled a hat trick was in offending no one enough to actively get an edition war rolling against it - the environment that creates is actively hostile to new players even trying the game. There, the differences from past eds really mayter.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I didn't mind the playtest, it was rough in the middle but the start and end were fun.
But the forums were negative mostly with the Avengers dumping all over it.

The high watermark for negativity was certainly DoaM

The ragequit "threats" were hilarious, though.

Paizo could design the best rules in the world, I think the main problem will be 5E existing.

Good rules do seem a positive liability, especially the closer your orbit brings you to D&D.

I was very much afraid it was going to be an updated 4e and by that I mean keeping the "powers" and heavy focus on grid and mini's. I was digging out my old 2e books to try one last time to get a regular game going.

You shouldve tried Next, it was never a bit like 4e, it started out evoking 1e pretty hard, and worked it's way up to 2e-ishness.
TotM fetish from the get-go... drove one of my poor* players nuts, his turns took forever.





*In the sense of unfortunate, not lacking funds or skill.

 

[Imaro]

Just requires a good enough DM.

Though, to be cynical, so long as they decide they hate the game after buying a PH, they're a sale, and as long as they actually played it, count towards that 40 million factoid.

Sooo nowhere? I think you might have quoted me by accident since you didn't actually answer the question I asked.

Its a given, really. New players have no knowledge of past editions' mechanics, so how 5e differs is, at most, a matter of academic interest. Either the DM runs a good enough game to hook 'am, or he doesnt.

Disagree. A new player having a lack of knowledge around the mechanics of previous editions in no way determines whether a difference from previous editions is one of or the reason they enjoy the game. In other words I don't need to have knowledge of gravity in order for it to affect me.

Where 5e content pulled a hat trick was in offending no one enough to actively get an edition war rolling against it - the environment that creates is actively hostile to new players even trying the game. There, the differences from past eds really mayter.

Lol, or 5e is just a better game.

 

[Parmandur]

I didn't mind the playtest, it was rough in the middle but the start and end were fun.

But the forums were negative mostly with the Avengers dumping all over it.

Paizo could design the best rules in the world, I think the main problem will be 5E existing.

In 2009 you didn't really have much choice. 4E was pushing people away PF offered a safety net.

5E isn't really pushing anyone away. The casuals seem to have left already the renaing Pathfinder players are probably fairly hardcore.

As much as people like dumping on older editions you can still have fun with them.

Yeah, PF2 biggest competition is PF1. Paizo can't invalidate anyone's existing books, nor the SRD material, do many folks still playing 3.X will have no strict motivation to change. That mainstream D&D is doing well is the anvil, but PF1 Grognardism is the hammer.

 

[Parmandur]

Sooo nowhere? I think you might have quoted me by accident since you didn't actually answer the question I asked.



Disagree. A new player having a lack of knowledge around the mechanics of previous editions in no way determines whether a difference from previous editions is one of or the reason they enjoy the game. In other words I don't need to have knowledge of gravity in order for it to affect me.



Lol, or 5e is just a better game.

It's not mutually exclusive to say that 5E doesn't offend any major grouping of fans and that it is a superior game: a strong case can be made that it is the same thing, since the end goal of the game is to harmoniously enjoy a game with friends.

 

[Parmandur]

Forums are negative but so was the lead up to 5E.

Playtest wasn't good, my wife really liked the PF2 Bard so buying the PDF and see how it goes from there. Getting the players will be the hard part, they all want to play 5E.

I started paying attention to things around February of 2014 (when a D&D Kreo ad before The Lego Movie reminded me that RPGs existed after ignoring them for 4 years), and what I saw in the forums was a lot of excitement. I largely ignored the Warlord subforum, though.

 

[Zardnaar]

Paizo released a lot of PF material.

Personally I have a lot of 2E and 3E material essentially untested. By that I mean mostly unused maybe a few feats etc.

 

[Zardnaar]

I started paying attention to things around February of 2014 (when a D&D Keep ad before The Lego Movie reminded me that RPGs existed after ignoring them for 4 years), and what I saw in the forums was a lot of excitement. I largely ignored the Warlord subforum, though.

2012 was bad, the old WotC forums. The hardcore 4E players had existed in a mod enforced bubble.

They were prepared to fight 3.X players but the influx of OSR and casuals flummoxed them lol.

It was around then I think some of the smarter ones worked out why 4E flopped. They spent so much time inventing arguments over 3.5. Ideas of playing OSR for balance reasons mostly eluded them.

It's was funny watching them trying to project 3.5isms onto older D&D when it became obvious a few hadn't played it and were projecting things based on hearsay.