Pathfinder 1E Is Pathfinder going to slow down?

[Gundark]

You might be aware of the Rob Donoghue blog where he claims that (if I've understood him correctly) is that 3e/PF has some age behind it. Maybe not now, but at some point Pathfinder is going to reach a point where people are going to be looking for other games as the market will become more and more saturated . Rob then makes some claims as to what he thinks these other games are (13th age, numenera, Dungeon World).

I don't pay a lot of attention to Pathfinder/Paizo, as someone who really disliked 3e there was little that attracted me to the game/publisher, I've played a few of their living games (or whatever they're called) but this has to do more with hanging out with firends than actually enjoying the rules. Paizo has done a great job of redoing and reselling the same stuff that WotC did with 3e. This isn't a criticism, they have marketed their line quite well. I noticed that they are putting out a new monster book (4?), this has got me thinking that there has got to be a point where people start to say "Do I need monster book 10?".

Their APs are their biggest seller, one would think at some point this has to reach a saturation point as well. My gaming group plays once a week, and I don't think we could keep up with the the rate that Paizo puts out APs. I would, at some point be like "do I need to buy this new story arc?" "Especially since there are a bunch to play?". Admittedly YMMV.

So when does Pathfinder reach a saturation point? How far away are we from this? I think it's silly to say that they can keep up with what they are doing without either branching out into different things (board and card games/mmos, which is what they seem to be doing) or they look at rebooting Pathfinder.

Thoughts?

 

[Radiating Gnome]

I think that Paizo set themselves up for better, "evergreen" content when they elected to focus more on continuing to work in their area of strength -- APs. The core rules don't need to change for them to continue to develop stories to play through.

That said, I think a certain amount of setting fatigue may also be a factor -- Golarion is broad and has a lot of different corners to explore, but like AD&D did, it may become attractive to consider a new setting. It could be a lot of fun to see a pathfinder take on something new. Those non-fantasy settings tend to not sell all that well, but maybe Paizo can change those expectations, too. We all know the APs in those settings will be dynamite.

-rg

 

[Morrus]

Eventually, yes. It has to. The books will become ever more specialized, each appealing to ever smaller groups of people (while costing the same to produce) - that's the fate of every RPG line. Fatigue will set in at some point, though Paizo do a great job at keeping the line fresh and exciting. But yeah, Bestiary #10 isn't going to be a "must buy".

Like you say, the APs are great, and they can keep being fresh and interesting.

I have no idea how long Pathinder 1.0 is going to last. It doesn't seem to me to be slowing down yet (and only Paizo will know for sure). Pathfinder is still discussed more than D&D Next (though I dare say less than all editions of D&D combined). It's still healthy.

The brand is being diversified into miniatures, comic books, novels, a video game, accessories, all sorts of things.

So, yeah. The RPG will slow down eventually. The brand, hopefully not so much - they seem to be insuring against that well. There will be Pathfinder 2E one day, for sure. When that is, and what form it'll take... who knows?

 

[Mistwell]

The most recent AP directly references 11 other non-core PF books. That's no longer a focus on APs, that's a focus on their entire line at once. And I think it could lead to saturation.

As to what people will jump to if they do feel saturation and rules-bloat, I strongly suspect 5e could peel off a good chunk of those people looking for something else.

 

[Gundark]

The most recent AP directly references 11 other non-core PF books. That's no longer a focus on APs, that's a focus on their entire line at once. And I think it could lead to saturation.

As to what people will jump to if they do feel saturation and rules-bloat, I strongly suspect 5e could peel off a good chunk of those people looking for something else.

I was flipping through an adventure from one of their APs and noticed that there was this fight where it didn't have stats for the creature, only stated "See monster book X pg XX". If I were a Paizo customer this would irk me significantly

 

[Imaro]

I was flipping through an adventure from one of their APs and noticed that there was this fight where it didn't have stats for the creature, only stated "See monster book X pg XX". If I were a Paizo customer this would irk me significantly

Is the monster freely available in the SRD? If so, not sure why it would be a big deal... in fact it would help conserve unnecessary use of space.


Mistwell... I'm curious about this concerning your statement as well... are these things that are available for free or is the needed info from the books you cited only available if one purchases the books?

 

[darjr]

I think the paizo core books are quite a bit different than what 3.5 put out. They are not just selling the same content. There is invention and new game design in their books that make them different than whatever the 3.5 equivalent may be. In some cases I don't think there is a 3.5 equivalent.

Also note that Eric Mona has said that the core book sells more and more every year. (At about 5:32 in the video)

[video=youtube;NvAuMKKyA5U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvAuMKKyA5U&list=UUaZ7ByBXPqZRg-Q-J-_0YEA&feature=player_detailpage#t=270[/video]

In a recent Know Direction podcast about the future of the game ( I think, if you want I'll find it ) they stated that at year 5 they have about as many gamers in the public play Pathfinder Society than at the high point of the RPGA and it shows no sign of slowing down. I know around here that I'm going to have trouble getting enough GM's for tables RSN.

Also I think Paizo knows that there is a large contingent that get the AP with no intention of really running them verbatim, but borrow and mod and enjoy reading the issues.

But I do agree that at some point their customers will show them the way. Saturation and core book fatigue are probably inevitable. I know that I stave it off by cherry picking what I get from them. It's only a few core books at this point. They do have a knack for drawing me in, Mythic I'm looking at you.

 

[Gundark]

There seems to be a recent trend in RPGs for a return to rules lighter games. We've seem the rise in popularity of FATE, Cortex +, Savage Worlds, Dungeon World, Numernera, IKRPG, and others. Other games in development are turning from complexity to easier to digest rules. Companies like Crafty Games who traditionally have made quite dense games rules wise is apparently dialing down the crunch quite a bit for Spycraft 3rd, and of course WotC is making D&D next a lighter set of rules first with complexity to be added later.

Heck, my friend who LOVES crunch in rpgs is now looking for lighter games and got fatigued by Shadowrun 5th very quickly

One wonders if this trend will affect Pathfinder

 

[darjr]

I was flipping through an adventure from one of their APs and noticed that there was this fight where it didn't have stats for the creature, only stated "See monster book X pg XX". If I were a Paizo customer this would irk me significantly

I'll bet that monster is in the PFSRD on line. Something else that I think Paizo does just right.

 

[darjr]

... One wonders if this trend will affect Pathfinder

I think it has. I think that it was one of the drivers for the deck building game and the beginner box.