Is Pathfinder outselling D&D?

[Kichwas]

4e didn't so much as jump the shark, as the shark now appears to have jumped it.

4e's a great RPG, it just isn't DnD. Pathfinder is DnD - or at least feels like it.

[MENTION=88106]Erdrick Dragin[/MENTION]: 3.0 was a wonderful creature in that it did not too far alienate the DnD faithful, while at the same time bringing many people 'back' to DnD who had left it during 1E or 2E for other RPGs. It had just enough 'different stuff inspired by the competition' and yet -not- too far from 'the road well traveled' to get people all sitting at the same table again.

4e made the mistake of assuming -only- the people who had left DnD 'back in the day' were worth holding onto. And while I was in that crowd - we were always the minority and split across many different games due to a variety of incompatible tastes. 4e also tried to get WoW's players to sit down to a table for 8 hours every Tuesday night... and well... there's a reason WoW players don't do that...

 

[Feeroper]

Erdrick Dragon - You do know D&D board games are not exlusive to 4E?

Same with card games.

Also, they never released the Ravenloft game they talked about. Sure there are elements from Ravenloft within the core D&D world a la the Shadowfell, but it is not Ravenloft. There was the board game for Ravenloft, but it is certainly not part of the RPG line.

I personally love 4e (and Ive been playing all forms of D&D since 2nd edition - I even enjoy a good Pathfinder game from time to time), but I would not call it a "dumbing down". They have just made it more streamlined, although it certainly isnt without its issues. Ive found with 4e Ive had a much easier time getting non-RPG folk in to play and enjoy than I had with previous editions. In my experience it has been good for the hobby in this day and age where it gets harder and harder to compete with video games and the like.

However, I understand your thoughts/feelings about this, and Im not trying to call you out or say you are wrong, just wanted to point out that some of your argument above ignored that board/card games were not exclusive to 4e.

 

[lucek]

I think it's an important note that we don't actually have very much data. For example we only have relative rankings on amazon. At this point 4E has basically 3 PHB1's, 2 DMG1's etc. not to mention box sets. So it's not really a comparison at all to say PHB1 has a worse ranking then the pathfinder core book. Next the mane argument is the subjective feeling of book store that sell both 4E and Pathfinder. WE have no clue about the majority of stores that sell 4E but not pathfinder, nor do we have actual numbers of from the stores that sell both, just that the store that responded had employees and or manager that had a feeling that Pathfinder sold more.

What does this all mean in the end? Not much. Both games are selling well and expanding the hobby for everyone. And you know what, I'm happy if it means there are more people who graduate from the entry level games and support the more obscure and in my opinion interesting games.

Before I get hate mail, I'm not bashing D20 It's just the system most people get started with and not my favorite.