Is PCGen dead now?

[Brown Jenkin]

From the CMP Boards http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=633#633

The data sets are for PCGEN, E-Tools has full rights to the data already, and yes I'm pleased with how people are behaving on these boards!
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Karianna[

Apparently the e-tools datasets will be free. So PCGen users will now have the choice of paying $40 for e-tools and all the wotc material for free or getting a free PCGen and paying $40 the first year and each additional year to use PCGen. So much for PCGen being the cheaper solution. It seems CMP has chosen to kill its baby in echange for a few dollars.

[Edit: fixed quote bars]

 

[Hardhead]

Well, as a long time PCGen user, I can honestly say I'm thinking about purchasing e-Tools now. It depends on how this all plays out.


- Z a c h

 

[Ranger REG]

You got a problem paying $5 for the data set based on the copyrighted material not yet in the SRD?



Wow, and I thought I'm the cheapest SOB on this messageboard.

 

[Henry]

PCGen is not dead. Please read Mynex's full announcement over on the d20 Publishers forum. In a nutshell, the deal covers BOTH supporting E-tools, and adding the WotC datasets to PCGen.

You may be forgetting that there are many, many gamers out there who use windows who would not touch PCGen with a 10-foot pole, yet will use E-tools, because of the Java VM rquirements, and some issues with program speed. This deal, on the surface, at least, is an exchange between CMP and WotC - they take over support in exchange for access to files for their own use.

It's a good day for E-Tools and PCGen all around!

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

You got a problem paying $5 for the data set based on the copyrighted material not yet in the SRD?



Wow, and I thought I'm the cheapest SOB on this messageboard.

I've got no problem paying for something -- I've contributed money to PCGen, these boards, etc. But if I have to spend $X each for 12 books *per year* then I'll stop using PCGen.

 

[Henry]

Rodrigo,

So I am to understand that WotC material is the ONLY thing you use PCGen for now?

 

[Brown Jenkin]

PCGen is not dead. Please read Mynex's full announcement over on the d20 Publishers forum. In a nutshell, the deal covers BOTH supporting E-tools, and adding the WotC datasets to PCGen.

You may be forgetting that there are many, many gamers out there who use windows who would not touch PCGen with a 10-foot pole, yet will use E-tools, because of the Java VM rquirements, and some issues with program speed. This deal, on the surface, at least, is an exchange between CMP and WotC - they take over support in exchange for access to files for their own use.

It's a good day for E-Tools and PCGen all around!

I am have read the anouncement and while they will continue to suppost PCGen they are setting the ecconomics so that only e-tools is a viable option.

I've like PCGen for its ability to work correctly (There are bugs but they get patched quickly) and handle more than just the 3 core books. Up until now PCGen has done better than e-tools in achieving these goals. Now however e-tools will be fixed to work correctly and will have all of the WotC data for no additional charge. So I now have a choice between 2 products that do the same same and have the information. Now that I have to spend money on both (Yes I can use PCGEn with only SRD/OGL material for free but I own and use about 20 non-SRD books from WotC) It becomes a value issue. So lets look at the costs e-Tools=$40 (includes all WotC material plus random character generation) and PCGen=$0(base program)+$3x20books*per year subscription=$60 per year (and does not include random generation). I understand that there are some people who can't use e-tools because it is windows only but 90% of computer users use Windows. Given the economics and demographics while PCGEn may continue to be supported it will infact lose most of its users.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Rodrigo,

So I am to understand that WotC material is the ONLY thing you use PCGen for now?

can't speak for Rodrigo but my group only uses WotC sources as default acceptable and I suspect many other campaigns are this way as well.

 

[Henry]

...So lets look at the costs e-Tools=$40 (includes all WotC material plus random character generation) and PCGen=$0(base program)+$3x20books*per year subscription=$60 per year (and does not include random generation). I understand that there are some people who can't use e-tools because it is windows only but 90% of computer users use Windows. Given the economics and demographics while PCGEn may continue to be supported it will infact lose most of its users.

First of all, on the main page, the announcement indicates that E-tools users will be paying for their updates too - an E-tools user won't be getting all that WotC material for free.

So it looks like it will actually break down to:

X dollars for E-tools base program with all core material
+ $3 x 20 sources

Versus

0.00 dollars for PCGen
+ $3 x 20 sources.

Keeep in mind, E-tools will probably be cheaper as an electronic download as well. If the Code Monkeys are doing their job, they will also probably be beefing up their QA on making sure the user has all necessary options loaded with e-tools as well - E-tools doesn't come perfectly working 100% out of the box, according to posts on the defunct Fluid Forums.

So One either pays for E-tools, gets the data for pay, and likely will get downloads for SRD material also

OR

use PCGen for free, put up with a Java VM, get WotC data for pay, and get SRD for free.

PCGen also will have a LST converter, so if PCGen holds true on its promise to reduce the numebr of data format changes, this will become invaluable. Heck, LST converters still work on most of the Feats, spells, languages, etc. now - only classes do not convert well.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Rodrigo,

So I am to understand that WotC material is the ONLY thing you use PCGen for now?

No, I also use a lot of Malhavoc stuff, some Mongoose, a little Sword & Sorcery, etc. But I'm running a pretty much stock FR campaign, and the other stuff is there to supplement the core material.

Let's be clear -- it's not the idea of CMP charging for the data that gets my knickers in a twist (although WotC putting everyone in this situation ticks me off no end), it's the idea of a per-item, per-PC recurring charge.

Like I said, I've already contributed to money for PCGen development, and was anticipating donating another $25 or so this year, and doing so cheerfully.

A lot of this gnashing of teeth is pointless until more details are known, but the more community feedback there is now, the more likely everyone is to end with a situation they are happy with. I don't think Bryan and all the people who have contributed to the project (including some infinitesimal contributions from myself) want to have endured all the grief just to end up alienating everyone over a couple bucks.