Is PHB 2 really "Core?"

[Retreater]

I was killing time at the local mega bookstore recently and I decided to thumb through the Player's Handbook 2.

How can this book be considered a core rulebook?

It's not that the classes or races aren't good it's that it doesn't define the core mechanics of game play.

Imagine a new player getting the "core" player's book for the system, not knowing the rules of the game. He wouldn't be able to generate stats, figure out how to move his character on the battlemat, or make sense out of terms like "extended rest" or "critical hit."

Then imagine the retailer who doesn't really know that a player must have PHB 1 to play the game and stocks only the newer, shinier PHB 2?

I think this is a major misnomer and that it muddies the waters for new players entering a hobby with an already steep learning curve.

Maybe this has already been discussed at length, but I just wanted to give my opinion. I hope that in the future WotC can better label their products to explain what the heck they are for clueless retailers and uneducated consumers (those just starting the hobby).

All this just to mislead customers and sell more copies of the book, meanwhile confusing those just starting out.

Retreater

 

[nightwyrm]

Everything in 4e is "core" in the sense that any book that comes out would be designed to take into account all the books that comes out before it and you can expect further support for a book in later releases. Just because a book is "core" doesn't mean you don't need other books to play.

 

[fba827]

From the WotC perspective, PHB2 is core.

From your game group's perspective, it is either core or not depending on what you decide.

As far as PHB2 requiring the other books -- on the back of PHB2 (and every other book, be it 3e, 4e, and probably even earlier than that!) it actually says in block lettering "this book requires PHB, DMG, MM in order to play"

(it also says it inside some of the books, in the intro area, but if it's shrinkwrapped you can't see it inside)

While I agree it may be confusing to the some novices, I don't believe it is done, as you say, for the purpose of confusing anyone (but what do I know).

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Then imagine the retailer who doesn't really know that a player must have PHB 1 to play the game and stocks only the newer, shinier PHB 2?

I may be wrong, but I would think the PHB2 states that it requires the PHB1. Plus it would make sense to most not to start a game with the second volume of a book.

Core has been redefined. PHB2 is core because it adds classes to the base of the game. Martial Power, OtoH, is labelled a supplement because it expands upon existing classes.

 

[Desdichado]

What does "core" even mean? It's a fairly useless phrase that WotC has tried to coopt in an attempt to convince the more gullible that they need to buy everything. Functionally speaking, though, I can't see any difference in intent between the PHB2 in 4e and the splatbooks in 3e or 2e. They give you more options, most people will probably use them, but it's kinda absurd to believe you can tell people at home what they must use, and even moreso what they must buy and expect them to do it.

 

[Remathilis]

One more time.

There are "roughly" three tiers of material coming for D&D 4e.

CORE: These are the main books the game is going to assume you are familiar with. It includes the classes, races, feats, monsters, and such for the "default" D&D game. It also includes much of the PoL fluff (as it is, like deities or such). The first round of core books (PHB, DMG, MM) introduced the basic rules and elements, each "core" since then (II, III) will introduce both additional elements and more complex elements.

SUPPLEMENTAL: These are books that enhance play, but are not necessarily required to play. They can be Dragon articles, modules, monster books (Open Grave), X Power books, etc. Unlike the core, very few "new" rules are going to be introduced and there won't be as much cross-referencing from them (such as needing Open Grave to play the Ghoul King module).

CAMPAIGN: These are the three-book settings (Realms, Eberron) which include the core elements, may include supplemental at DM's desire, and introduce their own stuff that may/may not be referenced outside of the campaign (so far, Drow, Genasi and swordmage have crossed over into pseudo-core)

Most future D&D books will assume you are familiar with the core books (and sequels), then it is DMs choice to add supplemental options and/or a campaign setting.

Cool?

 

[DarkMasterBR]

Yeah, I hate it too. I think it has the potential to be frustratingly confunsing to a new player.
Another "very minor thing" that I absolutely hate everytime I read is the PHB sections on "what you need to play", and they list D&D miniatures there. I hate this so much, because when I started playing, back at 2001 (I think) with the original d20 Star Wars core rulebook (yeah, talk about unortodox start), I had absolutely NO idea how to play the game, and I remember to be very confused by the fact that all I needed was one single book and some dice. But there it was, in the "what you need to play" section, that was it.

Now, someone with the same knowledge I read there would read and ask for the miniatures price on the store, and be VERY confused on the booster model of business. And I can tell you that, if that was me, I would never look at RPG again because of how expensive it was. I didn't have a friend who played for years to tell me "don't worry, it's only marketing".

Of course, today said person wouldn't even open the book, probably, because they would be confused and outraged at how many "core" books you need to play.

So yeah, it might be a minor thing, but I hate it, because I'm sure it would have driven me away if it was like that when I picked up my first rpg book.

 

[Jack99]

Everything in 4e is "core" in the sense that any book that comes out would be designed to take into account all the books that comes out before it and you can expect further support for a book in later releases. Just because a book is "core" doesn't mean you don't need other books to play.

This can not be emphasized enough. Core is merely a label to indicate future support of the product.

You still only need the PHB1, DMG1 and MM1 to play the game.

 

[fissionessence]

One more time.

There are "roughly" three tiers of material coming for D&D 4e.

--snip--

What you've presented here is not WotC's definition of core. This may be your interpretation of what 'core' should mean, or the way your group runs things, but Wizards has repeatedly stated that everything is core.

I don't think that this is necessarily a way to 'trick' players into buying everything. Rather, it's a way to promise players that everything they buy will sustain is relevance to the D&D 'metagame' throughout the lifespan of the game. When I first heard about Wizards's 'everything is core' motto before 4E came out, I was ecstatic about it . . . and I still am. I want the books I buy and the options I choose to be supported by future releases, and I want these options to be recognized by other players across the world, so that when I join a game, the class I want to play isn't banned because it's 'not core' or 'just a supplement'.

There is no 'correct' definition of what 'core' means to D&D right now. There's the official definition, from Wizards of the Coast, where 'core' means everything made by Wizards, including Dungeon and Dragon online magazines. Then there are the individuals' definitions of 'core', which are only correct insofar as they satisfy those who maintain them.

As far as new players are concerned, this could indeed be a bit confusing. However, I hardly think it's intentional. Some new players might view PH2 as a new edition of the PH, rather than a second volume, and be confused that way. Hopefully, as others have stated, they'll spot the, "this requires the Player's Handbook, Monster Manual, and Dungeon Master's Guide" section.

~ fissionessence

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Another "very minor thing" that I absolutely hate everytime I read is the PHB sections on "what you need to play", and they list D&D miniatures there.

Someone with their books handy can correct me if I'm wrong. But I believe the "What You Need to Play" section also mentions alternatives to the miniatures. Even if it is as simple as "or some other kind of token to represent your character" that would suffice. Of course they're going to plug a product they sell, but IIRC they don't state that the game requires DDM to be played.

So if you buy miniatures after reading that the only thing you need to "hate" is your own inability to resist advertising when you obviously dislike the thought of buying what is advertised.