Is piracy a serious issue for game developers?

[Nifft]

actual numbers?

Does anyone have actual numbers about buying habits of people who use p2p networks? The RIAA can't get their number straight, the MPAA can't seem to find any either, so I guess this is a rhetorical question.

Why do publishers think that p2p networks are pure theft? Are they blind to the publicity? Or do they simply think the publicity is not worth the "theft"?

If publishers are able to acknowelge that "piracy" leads to both publicity and theft, why has no-one crunched the numbers to see how buying patterns are actually changed?


Given what I've seen in the software industry, the biggest beneficiaries of "piracy" have always been the largest producers of software -- Microsoft, IBM, etc. -- and the biggest losers have always been "shareware" developers. Free software (see penguin to left of post) is naturally immune.


Anyway, my point is: can we please have some numbers about the actual economic impact before we decide if something is "evil" (or even merely "chaotic" )?

No, I don't want to hear the number of "lost sales" (i.e. pirated versions) multiplied by MSRP. That's a form of self-delusion. I want to hear about buying habits.

Thanks, -- N

 

[Ferrix]

Doubtful, except for perhaps a marginal dent in PDF sales.

There's no replacement for a good hardbound book at the gaming table.

 

[Storm Raven]

If you haven't guessed, I have nothing but contempt for current copyright laws. I think that the current copyright regime is actually hostile to the creation of dynamic creative content and is rather the best regulation that money can buy from industries that are trying to hold onto an outdated production and distribution schema.

You might have a point, except that under the current copyright regime, more creative material is being produced and made available to the public than at any previous point in history. Whether that is a result of tighter copyright laws is, of course, a subject of debate, but the emprical evidence is that the current copyright regime is quite friendly to the creation of new content.

 

[Bloodstone Press]

A Case Study in Obedience and Morality

So, I signed off the computer and went and ran some errands.

My first stop was to get some gas. My local convenience store had a new sign up on the pump that asked people to pay first before pumping their gas. So I went in, gave the guy a $10 and told him "I'm going to get $10 on #2."

He said "OK" took the $10 and turned the pump on.

I went out and started pumping gas. But the pump didn't stop at $10! It went on to almost $11 before I even noticed! And it kept running. I quickly realized I could just keep pumping gas for as long as I wanted, and as long as I didn't go back in to the store and tell the guy, I would easily get away with stealing a bunch of gas.

So what did I do?

I pumped $1 more of gas (because I like round numbers). And I went back in, told the guy "The pump didn't stop on $10, so I pumped $2 more. Here." and I gave him another $2.

When I went back in, the guy wasn't even standing at the counter. Nor was he near a window. I could easily have pumped a full tank of gas and driven off without him knowing. But I didn't.

Why?

Because I wouldn't want someone to do that to me, and because it would be morally wrong.

But then I got in my truck and promptly started driving 60 MPH in a 50 MPH speed zone!

Why?

Because I know that out here in the country, there are hardly any cops around.

But then when I got close to town, where the speed limit drops to 40 MPH, I slowed down to exactly 40 MPH!!

Why?

Because I know there are a lot more cops in town.

See how that works? (fear of punishment)

I bet most people reading this have similar driving habits. If you know there are cops around, you make sure you don’t speed, right?

But my question to everyone reading this thread is, would YOU have gone in and given that guy more money after accidentally pumping more gas than you had bought? Would you do the right thing when no one is looking, or would take the extra gas and run? (especially in these times)

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I really think most of the people with 10s or 100s of gigs of illegal RPG stuff are actually just packrats. I really don't think they use it. They just keep buying bigger drives, blank DVDs, and LTO drives to back up there collection, never having the chance to use 1% of it. Guess the joke is on them.

I think you're probably right. I have a friend has dled about 100 D&D related PDFs he never has used but 1 or 2 of them at all (excluding the 3 core rule books), the rest he glanced over when he got them and thats about it.

 

[FraserRonald]

Searching a p2p network is not illegal by any definition of the law, so I don't know what's stopping you.

Nah, I just don't use them anymore. I admit that I did use p2p at one time (which got me hooked on Firefly and got me to buy the DVD collection), but not anymore. I just haven't bothered to download and install the various p2p software in order to do the search. Even if I found something, what would I do about it.

I selected a couple of titles mentioned on your website and ran a search through two major p2p networks; it didn't yield any results. I don't know if this answer makes things better or worse for you. Needless to say, I didn't check the two other major sources of pirated stuff on the net, IRC and usenet, and if there are some specialized RPG p2p networks, I am unaware of them.

Thanks, Sammael. I actually didn't expect I would find any of our products if I did search p2p, until the appearance of Mr. Fan (not his real name . . . or maybe it is . . . hmmmm). Who knows how he and his "remote friend" (nice, Thanee) connect.

Thanks again. Take care.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

But why do you insist on using the words "theft" or "thieves", although they are completely inappropriate? Use "copyright infringement". This sloppy wording leaves the doors open for broadsides that have nothing to do with the core of the problem .

I don't-- I try to be as precise (and neutral, generally) as possible on controversial discussions, and to me it is plainly obvious that there is a major difference between "theft" and "copyright infringement", regardless of the moral status of the latter.

I was merely trying to bring some perspective to the argument, because someone who admits to having downloaded numerous illegal .pdfs (though he does say he no longer uses his old collection) expressed wonder at people "being so devoted to evil".

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the people who think that scanning a book into .pdf form and making it available for download is worse than stealing physical copies of it from the store. Once again, regardless of the morality of copyright infringement, I have to say that theft of a physical product is worse.

As for the problem itself, I agree with the answers who state that companies who publish in pdf only have probably more problems with illegal downloads. Print publishers cater to a mostly different market with customers who often don't like pdf's, anyway.

I have to agree with this, as well-- when there are more download sources available than your customer list, it's hard to argue that you haven't lost sales, despite what some advocates of file-sharing might say. There's a big difference between a scanned image of a $30 book that sold thousands of copies, and an exact duplicate of a $5 pdf that fifteen people bought.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

You're going to get 3 basic answers here (or anywhere you post this, probably): ... 3. It doesn't hurt the industry at all so suck it up, power to the people, stick it to the man, and all that.

You know, you can defend piracy without having to hold a "stick it to the man" mentality. Of course, there are plenty of people who do have this mentality, but there are also pirates who realize they wouldn't exist, and wouldn't have material to enjoy and share, without whatever industry they happen to be pirating from.

I saw a copy of a book once where the original scanner had added a section to the bookmarks asking people who saw the book and liked it to consider buying a legal copy, because of the fine work the designers and publishers did in creating it.

 

[Wormwood]

I bet most people reading this have similar driving habits. If you know there are cops around, you make sure you don’t speed, right?

That's why I advocate increasing the criminal penalties for illegal file-sharing. Increasing to a degree that makes me a pariah among my loser, slacker, sense-of-entitlement friends.

 

[Tav_Behemoth]

Anyway, my point is: can we please have some numbers about the actual economic impact

I'd posted about filesharing of Behemoth3's Maze of the Minotaur in a thread at the Forge a while back:

Like most RPG companies worth their salt, Behemoth3 has corporate espionage specialists on our payroll. Normally our spies get jobs that are both boring (sifting through Phil Reed's garbage) and futile (not only did we not discover the secret dietary formula that makes him so productive, we didn't even find proof that it exists). So our spies were very happy to be sent to infiltrate pirates' dens, even if the reality wasn't as swashbuckling as they'd hoped, and we were happy to be told that Maze of the Minotaur was being traded on P2P networks.

Insert here the mandatory statement that I don't condone piracy and think creators should be paid for their work; see the post for the reasons I thought filesharing was a good thing for a company in our position.

To satisfy Nifft's request, there was no discernible difference in sales between Minotaur and Stirges; in other words between the books that were and weren't available via filesharing networks (at least when our intern did the search). So, for us, piracy neither provided beneficial free advertising nor cut into sales; or perhaps these two effects canceled each other out.

To answer the original query, though, I think unauthorized sharing is potentially more serious for the RPG industry than it is for the music industry. Here's why:

Artists in the music industry have a revenue stream from live performances; the music-publishing end of what they do is, in many cases, a relatively small part of their income. In our file-sharing era, artists can afford to give up income from unauthorized sharing of their recordings, and treat it as advertising for their concerts. Since the RPG industry has traditionally relied entirely on publishing for income, we don't have this option.

Behemoth3's new enterprise, Otherworld Excursions, is (among other things) about finding ways for the virtuosos of our art form to support themselves through live performance just as actors or musicians can; a great gaming session is definitely something you can't download from a P2P network!