Is poison use inherently evil?

[Uller]

Using poison could be seen as lawful good:

The local authorities are faced with some sort of unrest that is heading towards outright riot and revolt. These authorities _could_ go in and slaughter everyone with no problem. But that would be chaotic (ignoring legal prohibitions to slaughtering commoners...even ones causing a riot) and evil (ignoring ethical prohibitions to the same). So the authorities throw in canisters of "poison" gas that causes 2d6 temp strength damage for its initial and secondary damage. Now they just go in, round up the leaders and bring them to justice legally and ethically without having to harm them or anyone who might defend them.

If poison use was inherently evil then all intelligent creatures that have a natural poison attack would have to be evil wouldn't they?

 

[Kugar]

yes but ...

The way it is used is very important. Throwing the "tear gas" as decribed above might not be evil, but how many stories portray the antagonist as "EVIL" by having them poison the king. In DnD, as in many fairy tales, the suspension of disbelief is that facing off in melee is "Heroic" and cold blooded murder is "Evil" Really take a laundry list of all the things your group has done and look at the body count. The huge body count has to tell you that the "ends" don't make the hero.

 

[Rantar]

Thanks

You guys seem pretty inline with what I was thinking. Its just another tool to fight with just like a bow or sword. Now concealed killing is an entirely different matter. Most "good" killing is down out in the open so that all know. Poison allows for killings that cannot be traced to an owner, thus is often used for nefarious purposes. That kind of hidden killing could very well be construed as evil and rightly so.

--Zach

 

[Uller]

yes but ...

The way it is used is very important. Throwing the "tear gas" as decribed above might not be evil, but how many stories portray the antagonist as "EVIL" by having them poison the king. In DnD, as in many fairy tales, the suspension of disbelief is that facing off in melee is "Heroic" and cold blooded murder is "Evil" Really take a laundry list of all the things your group has done and look at the body count. The huge body count has to tell you that the "ends" don't make the hero.

In that case, it is not the use of poison that is evil. For instance (since you bring up fairy tales) in Snow White, the Queen first tries to have Snow White murdered by a woodsman. That act is not seen as any less evil than when she poisons the girl later. It is not the poisoning that is evil. It is murdering a child out of jealousy and vanity that is evil.

In many stories, poison is a vehicle used by evil characters because cowardice is seen as a trait common among scoundrels, or it is seen as a particularly nasty death (like placing someone in an eteranal death-like slumber).

So...my point is that poison use is not INHERENTLY evil because there are ways it can be used that are good. If there are reasonably common ways to do something without it being evil then it cannot be inherently evil.

 

[pseudo_hero]

lawful vs chaotic definetely. Its odd how if I imagine a CG Rogue sneaking into an evil goblin camp that regularly raids villages and poisons their food... (resulting in the death of the tribe) It realy almost seems evil. Even though the golbins are known for taking innocent life. Wow that is a strong psychological imprint. I wonder where I got it from? Tv, must be tv, tv is eeeeeviiiiiil

 

[Terwox]

Why can't a paladin sneak into a goblin camp and poison their food?

I dunno. I say it's fine. Might not be straight by the rules. Don't care.

 

[Hejdun]

Ultimately, it's DM's call.

IMC, the use of poison is seen as chaotic. Using poison in a duel of honor is a big, huge, glowing neon "no no". All knightly orders or honorable groups do not allow poison use in combat, and would have some reservations about using it the poison gas mentioned above.

Of course, there is that passage in the DMG (underneath the Poison table) that mentions that all poison is illegal everywhere

 

[Someone]

Naturally. When someone is going to kill the kind of people that make laws, he tries to use poison; is the only way to finish him and continue alive despite the cloud of guards surrounding him. I find normal that they try to reduce the sources of threats to their safety.

Anothe bit of data that can be helpful is that, historically, carry concealed weapons were strictly forbidden. In Spain, in the Renaissance, were laws that punised carrying a daggerunless you carried a sword as well. The reason was that the dagger can be easily concealed, and used to attack without warning. But everyone can see that a man with a sword is armed, even when he´s more dangerous.

Now poison can´t be used for self-defense, or couldn´t in medieval times, and therefore were useful only for murder.

 

[Hejdun]

Why can't a paladin sneak into a goblin camp and poison their food?

What honorable paladin WOULD do that? Not one that I can think of. His god better not have the words "honor" or "valor" or "courageous" in his portfolio.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Explain how poison use is a chaotic act, unless it is specifically banned within the kingdom that you're currently in? More kingdoms will have banned the carrying of weapons than will ban poisons. Is weapon use a chaotic act?

If sneak attacking or coup-de-gracing someone is not an aligned act (and it isn't), then neither is poison use.