Hussar
Legend
I would point you to This Thread for other possibilities regarding your problems with CR. There could be any number of factors that have caused you difficulties, up to and including overpowered encounters.
Is Power Creep Real? If so, how do you fight it?
- Thread starter Retreater
- Start date
Moggthegob
First Post
Personally, the best way to fightpower creep is learningthe value of a tactical retreat.
Moon-Lancer
First Post
power creep is just a fear we all have so we see it everyplace. However I have found monsters in the srd to be way too strong at times.
Like earth elementals among other things. They have really good ac, damage reduction and are able to hit almost anything. They also get 2 attacks at level 5, when everyone else only gets 1. They are immune to critical and mind effecting spells, and have no real exploitable weakness at level 5.
2 rounds and my fighter monk barbarian was down. He got healed, stood up and got knocked down again with an aoo. This happened 3 times.
all the other characters couldn't do enough damage to get past its damage reduction. To be fare their was only 3 characters, not 4. the other two characters were a rogue and a beguiler.
We had above average hit dice (roll 3 times, choose highest), but the dm never used power attack, or cleave even though she could have.
My point is, that their is alot of nasty stuff in core that if you encounter it on your cr, can be a tpk pretty easily.
you sent a cr8 creature at a party of level 5 characters and the monster was strong? imagine you had sent a cr 7 earth elemental. thats 152 hit points with a grapple of 29, two +19 attacks that do 2d10+9 damage each.
if this mm3 creature was too strong for a cr 8 as you say, would it be equivalent to a cr 9 earth elemental?
sorry I'm not attacking you, but i think people sometimes forget how strong things can be in core.
Like earth elementals among other things. They have really good ac, damage reduction and are able to hit almost anything. They also get 2 attacks at level 5, when everyone else only gets 1. They are immune to critical and mind effecting spells, and have no real exploitable weakness at level 5.
2 rounds and my fighter monk barbarian was down. He got healed, stood up and got knocked down again with an aoo. This happened 3 times.
all the other characters couldn't do enough damage to get past its damage reduction. To be fare their was only 3 characters, not 4. the other two characters were a rogue and a beguiler.
We had above average hit dice (roll 3 times, choose highest), but the dm never used power attack, or cleave even though she could have.
My point is, that their is alot of nasty stuff in core that if you encounter it on your cr, can be a tpk pretty easily.
Doug McCrae said:
you sent a cr8 creature at a party of level 5 characters and the monster was strong? imagine you had sent a cr 7 earth elemental. thats 152 hit points with a grapple of 29, two +19 attacks that do 2d10+9 damage each.
if this mm3 creature was too strong for a cr 8 as you say, would it be equivalent to a cr 9 earth elemental?
sorry I'm not attacking you, but i think people sometimes forget how strong things can be in core.
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Possilbe spoilers
Well, I know of several encounters in Red Hand of Doom that had AC's in the "roll a nat 20 or forget it" range after we had done significant buffing. These encounters used core rules for the most part. These AC's were enchanced by buffing spells, but there really wasn't anyway to catch them off guard to prevent pre-combat buffing. It was either a WotC or Paizo staff member that said that they made adventures really difficult on purpose because the adventures were more "memorable" that way. The best way to combat this is to have your PC's start the adventures at least one level higher than suggested. INMHO RHoD should have been for 6th-7th level characters, not 5th.
Well, I know of several encounters in Red Hand of Doom that had AC's in the "roll a nat 20 or forget it" range after we had done significant buffing. These encounters used core rules for the most part. These AC's were enchanced by buffing spells, but there really wasn't anyway to catch them off guard to prevent pre-combat buffing. It was either a WotC or Paizo staff member that said that they made adventures really difficult on purpose because the adventures were more "memorable" that way. The best way to combat this is to have your PC's start the adventures at least one level higher than suggested. INMHO RHoD should have been for 6th-7th level characters, not 5th.
Odhanan
Adventurer
Is powercreep real? Yes, to some extent. It varies with the games, but it is a tendency shared by all RPGs benefiting from a long list of further publications after their appearance on the market.
How do you fight it? Specifically in D&D? I don't fight it. I don't have to. Whatever builds the players come up with, I just tailor the adventures' content so that challenges remain challenges. It makes the players feel like they can play what they really want to play and keeps the game entertaining. When in doubt, I modify my stuff instead of creating artificial barriers for the players. That's about it.
How do you fight it? Specifically in D&D? I don't fight it. I don't have to. Whatever builds the players come up with, I just tailor the adventures' content so that challenges remain challenges. It makes the players feel like they can play what they really want to play and keeps the game entertaining. When in doubt, I modify my stuff instead of creating artificial barriers for the players. That's about it.
Nifft
Penguin Herder
I'll tell you how to fight it! Power Attack + Deep Impact + Diamond Nightmare Blade!!! That creep will be dead in one attack!
Wait, nevermind... -- N
PS: Serious answer: be careful with allowing multiple non-Core supplements in the same character. Multiple supplements are often okay, but there are specific combos which should be prohibited, because sometimes you'll get the situation where one breaks rule X (relying on rule Y for balance), while the other breaks rule Y (relying on rule X for balance).
Regarding adventures & new monster books, I'm not sure if it's true that they are getting power creepier. They may just be getting more accurate. If you drop a CR 8 critter on some level 5 PCs, the critter should kick some butt.
Wait, nevermind... -- N
PS: Serious answer: be careful with allowing multiple non-Core supplements in the same character. Multiple supplements are often okay, but there are specific combos which should be prohibited, because sometimes you'll get the situation where one breaks rule X (relying on rule Y for balance), while the other breaks rule Y (relying on rule X for balance).
Regarding adventures & new monster books, I'm not sure if it's true that they are getting power creepier. They may just be getting more accurate. If you drop a CR 8 critter on some level 5 PCs, the critter should kick some butt.
Warren Okuma
First Post
Solution?
1) Start the characters with higher stats or give stat points to the players that do weaker builds or choose sucker classes (non primary spellcasters)
2) Kill them and add their equipment to the dungeon loot.
1) Start the characters with higher stats or give stat points to the players that do weaker builds or choose sucker classes (non primary spellcasters)
2) Kill them and add their equipment to the dungeon loot.
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