Is Power Creep Real? If so, how do you fight it?

[Hussar]

I'm not challenging you because I actually agree with you for the most part, but do you have a really good specific example of this?

Well, a fairly minor example, but, feats and PrC's from Oriental Adventures. A number of these are pretty high powered, but, it's balanced against the setting. When you yoink some of these out of the setting, they can be a bit higher octane I found.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Re: the Wotc modules...

It probably has a lot to do with experienced players (and game designers!) learning over the course of 3.0/3.5 what works and what doesn't and the need to create modules that can challenge them.

Sure, a lot of newbies/rookies may find themselves getting their clocks rung. But the majority of players will just find it a (refreshing) challenge.

When I run games with less experienced players, I either bump their levels a little bit or I don't use the enemies as aggressively as I might otherwise against more experienced players.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Deep Impact comes from the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

oh, i thought it was a stance, it sounded like one

 

[Nifft]

Sure, a lot of newbies/rookies may find themselves getting their clocks rung. But the majority of players will just find it a (refreshing) challenge.

I'm curious if this is true.

Are the majority of players (in general) non-rookies?

Are the majority of players (of WotC modules) non-rookies?

Anyone know? Thanks, -- N

 

[Phlebas]

Re: the Wotc modules...

It probably has a lot to do with experienced players (and game designers!) learning over the course of 3.0/3.5 what works and what doesn't and the need to create modules that can challenge them.

Sure, a lot of newbies/rookies may find themselves getting their clocks rung. But the majority of players will just find it a (refreshing) challenge.

When I run games with less experienced players, I either bump their levels a little bit or I don't use the enemies as aggressively as I might otherwise against more experienced players.

I also think the WOTC assume you've powergamed optimised your characters to the max using all the splat books you can afford. If you're still in it for the roleplaying and willing to take a few sub-optimal choices for a nice character concept then you can get seriously caned.

We're a pretty experienced party of 5 going through the shackled city and the DM's admitted he's had to hold back on quite a few encounters to avoid TPK.

Providing the DM can wing cr adjustments i'm not sure this is a problem. Its a lot easier to tone down an encounter (including just not chasing down the fleeing party) than it is to upgrade the challenge for a party that is just steamrolling every encounter

 

[JustKim]

I also think the WOTC assume you've powergamed optimised your characters to the max using all the splat books you can afford.
[...]
We're a pretty experienced party of 5 going through the shackled city

I avoided Shackled City myself, but I've heard the same thing from many people regarding the difficulty and opportunities for TPK. However, Shackled City was published by Paizo in Dungeon Magazine. It is not a WotC adventure at all.

WotC's adventures have also been this difficult since before there were any splatbooks, so your idea that WotC is trying to force us to buy splatbooks doesn't make sense.

 

[Phlebas]

WotC's adventures have also been this difficult since before there were any splatbooks, so your idea that WotC is trying to force us to buy splatbooks doesn't make sense.

It was more a dig at powergamers in general than splat books in particular..

and apologies for getting the wrong publisher, in my defense i'm playing it so i've never read it.

 

[Storyteller01]

You can get rid of power creep the same way Games Workshop is for WH40K; get rid of the extra options.

 

[Moggthegob]

I do not feel there is a power creep. Adventures are designed ot be challenging. CR9 monsters are gonna whoop 6th level parties. By contrast I have found sending a party of 6ths against an EL6 encounter theyl usually win and only scarcely be challenged.

I prefer living on the edge. Adventuring should be danger, you should never feel safe.

 

[Shazman]

I don't mind a good challenge, but some of the encounters I've expereinced in WotC's and Paizo's adventures went straight past challenging to frustrating to the point where a lot of the fun was sucked out of the game. That is not good adventure design. Even with a compellling plot and interesting villians to fight, an encounter that is too difficult is no fun for the players. This is a game. It's supposed to be fun. It's not supposed to be about "Let's see how difficult we can make this adventure." It's supposed to be "Let's make this adventure challenging and interesting enough to be entertaining." Just my 2 cents.