Is Ptolus living up to the hype?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I didn't say that -- in fact, the first group I mention is very ecstatic about it. I mentioned they have a recurring complaints about items being talked about but not statted up in the book and not enough detail on the old city, but nowhere did I say they they were disappointed. Quite the contrary -- they love Ptolus.

Oh, I'm sorry, so 100 percent of the people have complaints about it. Silly me.

Incidentally, those are the two camps that I've seen post about Ptolus. I suspect a "Love every last bit of it" camp exists, only because such a camp always exists, but I never take them seriously where products are concerned because of their wild bias -- if their favorite author crapped on a plate, they'd eat it and declare with a wide, brown, smile that it was a wonderful five coursse meal.

Or, alternately, you feel compelled to reduce anyone who doesn't agree with your two sets of criticisms to absurd cartoons.

Regarding Waterdeep and Greyhawk, I don't recall there being "canon" demographic breakdowns of race/class frequency in my AD&D 1e core rulebooks.

The charts beginning on 192 of the DMG are a good starting point. They're city encounter charts, but they explicitly give the racial breakdowns of cities (unless we're to assume certain races include a lot of hermits who never leave the house): 8 percent dwarf, 4 percent elf, 2 percent gnome, 7 percent half-elf, 2 percent halfling, 5 percent half-orc and everyone else are humans.

Needless to say, that's not Waterdeep and while Greyhawk is closer, it's still not the city as described by TSR. (It'd be interesting to see how closely it matches Yggsburgh, though.)

And "cranked up to 10?" Ptolus isn't cranked up anywhere, it's trying to take the basic concepts of the game and create a setting where they make sense, instead of trying to pretend that a society with people who can raise rich people from the dead and where a single asthmatic teenager can kill a platoon of soldiers is just like medieval England, only with better hygiene.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Incidentally, which camp of Ptolus owners are you in?

 

[jdrakeh]

Oh, I'm sorry, so 100 percent of the people have complaints about it. Silly me.

I never said that either. You keep putting words in my mouth. I said that I've seen two camps of Ptolus puchasers, not that they were the only two camps that exist or that my anecdotal experience is representative of the whole purchasing spectrum. WTF is your problem? Not get a nap today?

Or, alternately, you feel compelled to reduce anyone who doesn't agree with your two sets of criticisms to absurd cartoons.

Not at all. As I said I never listen to fanatic supporters of a product, even if it happens to be a product that I personally love. Why? because fantatic supports are er... fanatics. They don't an unbiased bone in their body. That I suggested some people didn't like Ptolus, for example, immediately set you off on the warpath.

The charts beginning on 192 of the DMG are a good starting point. They're city encounter charts, but...

And it's that "but" that makes all of the difference, really. Nowhere in the DMG does it say that the random encounter tables represent a fixed demographic breakdown. It's implied, I'll give you that, but this isn't the same thing as being codified canon. The codified canon rule is here -- "The Dungeon Master may have restrictions as to which races are allowed in the campaign due to the circumstances of the milieu." (AD&D 1e PHB, page 13). In short, the tables that you cite do not present a set in stone demographic breakdown, but only one of many possible breakdowns.

And "cranked up to 10?" Ptolus isn't cranked up anywhere

You might want to read Ptolus thoroughly before you make such statements...

"The Ptolus campaign is the d20 rules with the volume turned all the way up" -- Monte Cook (A Player's Guide to Ptolus, Introduction; Ptolus, Introduction)

 

[jdrakeh]

Incidentally, which camp of Ptolus owners are you in?

I was briefly in the latter (I still own the Player's Guide, as it would have been pointless to attempt trading it) -- I procured it just long enough to realize that, thematically, it didn't cover any new ground. As I said, though, it trumps all other D&D books where presentation, organization, and utility are concerned (and, in all of those departments, it does a lot of new stuff). I ended up with Warlords of the Accordlands, instead (which lacks the polish of Ptolus, but is chock full of new and different ideas for D&D).

 

[reanjr]

Or, alternately, you feel compelled to reduce anyone who doesn't agree with your two sets of criticisms to absurd cartoons.

There are two types of people in this world: those who split everyone into one of two groups and those that don't.

 

[reanjr]

Not at all. As I said I never listen to fanatic supporters of a product, even if it happens to be a product that I personally love. Why? because fantatic supports are er... fanatics. They don't an unbiased bone in their body.

I think you are showing more bias than these alleged fanatics. How do you know someone is a fanatic just because they love a product. Just because they cannot find flaw with it does not make them fanatical. I personally can find no flaw in the Dark*Matter Alternity setting, and I also happen to think it's the single best RPG setting I've come across. But I am not fanatical. I simply think the authors (one of which happens to be Cook) did a phenomenal job in every aspect and were backed up by an excellent team of editors, graphics artists, etc. If something else comes along that's better, I'll fully admit it.

 

[Kristian Serrano]

Thanks for derailing my thread with pointless flaming. Take it to PM and let the thread continue with it's original purpose.

 

[MojoGM]

I do think it lives of to the hype. I'm still working my way through it (due to the sheer volume of material) but so far I am very pleased.

I'm looking to start a new game in Ptolus early next year, and it has inspired me to try a different way of running a game (more open ended, larger player base, frequent session, rotating cast, etc).

In my opinion it was well worth the money. I only wish that Monte wasn't leaving the industry so he could do some follow-up products.

Oh, and for the record I am *not* a Monte fanboy. In fact, this is the first Monte Cook product I've ever purchased (not including the 3.0 books, of course).

 

[Bonzi]

Well, I'm currently playing in a Ptolus campaign. I can't speak about the details of the book itself since I don't own it, but I can tell you my feelings about the setting from a player's perspective. I've never played in a campaign that had the level of detail that Ptolus has. Nothing else has come close in my experience. The GM has thrown at us plot hooks left and right and left it up to us to make our way. I love that freedom myself, but I would assume the GM could control how much of that info to give out to the players if he felt it would overwhelm them. It seems the entire city is fleshed out. There's no place that we've gone where we didn't get highly detailed descriptions and meet interesting well thought out characters. Because of the details, it makes the setting much more realistic IMO. It's a lot easier to get into your role and you feel that the city is alive as opposed to just a place to sell your loot or heal up.

In addition to the cost of the book, I would guess it's a lot of work to run a Ptolus campaign but as a player I find the setting very captivating.

 

[Piratecat]

Oh, I'm sorry, so 100 percent of the people have complaints about it. Silly me.

Please stop trying to pick a fight. I think you're finding offense where none is intended, and I don't wish this thread to get hijacked because of it.

No threadcrapping please, everyone. This is just a heads up that it won't be tolerated. If it starts up, please report the post using the little icon on the bottom left.