Is "Spellcasting Prodigy" feat too powerful?
- Thread starter mooby
- Start date
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
Re: Re: Re
Then logically Prodigy + Spell Focus is at least as good as if not better than Spell Focus + Greater Spell Focus with respect to spell DCs. You have to look at both sides of the same coin.
Taking Prodigy does not prevent you from gaining the benefits of Focus, Greater Focus, or Penetration. Not in the slightest.
I agree with your point about Toughness -- its true value is vastly underestimated. But that detail only matters in some campaigns.
LokiDR said:
Then logically Prodigy + Spell Focus is at least as good as if not better than Spell Focus + Greater Spell Focus with respect to spell DCs. You have to look at both sides of the same coin.
Taking Prodigy does not prevent you from gaining the benefits of Focus, Greater Focus, or Penetration. Not in the slightest.
I agree with your point about Toughness -- its true value is vastly underestimated. But that detail only matters in some campaigns.
Re: Re: Re: Re
True. But if you combine metamagiced stat enhancement spells, three different DC increasing feats, and PrC class abilities to created broken DCs, what part of the combination is too powerfull? I would say the +1 from prodigy is not the worse part of the abuse.
Haste is another example. Just because it shows up in lots of high power cases doesn't mean it is too powerfull. It is useful, but that doesn't mean it should be changed.
Ridley's Cohort said:
True. But if you combine metamagiced stat enhancement spells, three different DC increasing feats, and PrC class abilities to created broken DCs, what part of the combination is too powerfull? I would say the +1 from prodigy is not the worse part of the abuse.
Haste is another example. Just because it shows up in lots of high power cases doesn't mean it is too powerfull. It is useful, but that doesn't mean it should be changed.
Roland Delacroix
First Post
Numion said:
So are Elven rations Epic?
Now... I think that the Sp. Prodigy is unbalanced if compared to other feats but... So is Weapon Focus!
A little rant...
What does the Prodigy give you? Some more spells and a better DC for your spells. For the number of spells... I think that spellcasters always had the shaft. A warrior can fight for hours, a spellcaster can throw only a number of spells (the fact that there are many uber-spells doesn't balance! I'm against uber-spells). For the DC part... Well... The DC is like a defensive roll against the spell. Now... If we consider a system where the Defense is subtracted from the Attack roll then a -1 in the Defense is equal to a +1 to Attack... So the +1 DC is balanced to the Weapon Focus! So the feat is not overpowering! (but it's still unbalanced to many other feats!)
Bye
Max
A little rant...
What does the Prodigy give you? Some more spells and a better DC for your spells. For the number of spells... I think that spellcasters always had the shaft. A warrior can fight for hours, a spellcaster can throw only a number of spells (the fact that there are many uber-spells doesn't balance! I'm against uber-spells). For the DC part... Well... The DC is like a defensive roll against the spell. Now... If we consider a system where the Defense is subtracted from the Attack roll then a -1 in the Defense is equal to a +1 to Attack... So the +1 DC is balanced to the Weapon Focus! So the feat is not overpowering! (but it's still unbalanced to many other feats!)
Bye
Max
Squire James
Explorer
It is not a "regional feat", and the only limitation is that the character must take it at level 1. I consider it a bit overpowered, but not ridiculous - sort of like Magic Missile. However, I am more strict than usual with its limitation... if the character isn't being created at level 1, he can't take it!
Spellcasting Prodigy isn't overpowered at all. In fact, I would imagine being a prodigy would do more for you than that. And as far as spell focus, I for one think that it is underpowered. However you must remember that Spellcasting Prodigy only affects one type of magic. Spell focus affects all spells of that school, regardless of class. So a Cleric/Wizard will probably benefit more from spell focus than spellcasting prodigy. And you must also remember that these feats stack, so both are useful.
And as far as the save DCs, I'm playing a level 17 Sorcerer who has a charisma of 34 (thanks to wish and cloak of charisma), spellcasting prodigy, spell power +3 (from Archmage), spell focus, etc. and people STILL save against my spells quite often. All those feats and bonuses merely make up for the fact that saving throw bonuses are too high in comparison, and multiclass characters, paladins, etc get even worse. Any joe blow can buy a cloak/vest of resistance to raise all of his saving throws (they aren't even that expensive). There is no item that increases save DCs. Then you have spell resistance, immunities, etc... So believe me, it isn't unbalanced. In fact, I don't know how I would survive without it.
And as far as the save DCs, I'm playing a level 17 Sorcerer who has a charisma of 34 (thanks to wish and cloak of charisma), spellcasting prodigy, spell power +3 (from Archmage), spell focus, etc. and people STILL save against my spells quite often. All those feats and bonuses merely make up for the fact that saving throw bonuses are too high in comparison, and multiclass characters, paladins, etc get even worse. Any joe blow can buy a cloak/vest of resistance to raise all of his saving throws (they aren't even that expensive). There is no item that increases save DCs. Then you have spell resistance, immunities, etc... So believe me, it isn't unbalanced. In fact, I don't know how I would survive without it.
I'm quite astonished.. ..well, one thing is debating the balance of Spellcasting prodigy compared to the D&D general balance, another is comparing SP with Weapon Focus.. ..ya, wow, a +1 to hit, and at mid to high levels, you'll possibly hit once more, while the mage is incinerating armies.. ..I mean, it's like comparing apples to oranges, a +1 to hit means nearly always a d8/10 +15/20 at high levels, while more spells and +1 DC means a monster is dead.. ..or, want to talk 'bout the benefits for a Wizzy/Cleric? Oh, yeah, double benefit for a half effective character, since all he can cast @ CLvl 20 is 5th level spells, cm'on..
Seriously, the balance issue is campaign and -more- players dependant.. ..if you play spellcasters easy, it's not that much a problem.. ..if your players use spellcasters as artillery, or save-or-die machines (and this is possible @mid/high lvls), the SP feat is just another issue just like the Madness Domain, the "evil" PrCs in the FRCS, the Archmage (not the Hierophant), et similia... ...there must be a balance between spellcasters and the world, that means also between magic user players and monsters, and magic user enemies and players... ..it's not fun at all to see your Red Wizard cast an Eyebite with DC 30 at level 11, nor its fun to make your players save against a similar DC at a similar level.. ..they clearly cannot do it, nor do the monsters..
AO, you speak of a Sorcy with CHA 34 (+12), SP (+1), Spell Power +3.. ..ok, so your DC are 26+Spell Level.. ..considering a Sorcerer has at his disposal spells that have a save against all three save types, are you really telling me that you are quite often resisted with a Fort DC of 34 (Horrid Wilting), or Ref DC 33 (DBFireball), or WIll DC 32 (Eyebite)? or 36/35/34 if you use Spell Enhancer before? IME, if you choose carefully the save type and you have that DC, the spell 80% of the time is not going to fail.. ..if that is not the case with you, then you DM has probably adjusted up a bit the save bonuses, that means you are freely allowed to pump up your DC without unbalancing the campaign.. ..all in all, it's always a matter of spellcasters/world balance, as I said...
P.S. [My curiosity] 34 Cha @ CLvl 17 w/out Eagle's Splendor? Mmm, 34 -5 (tome) -6 (Cloak of Cha) - 4 (Level ups) = 19.. ..are you an Aasimar?
Seriously, the balance issue is campaign and -more- players dependant.. ..if you play spellcasters easy, it's not that much a problem.. ..if your players use spellcasters as artillery, or save-or-die machines (and this is possible @mid/high lvls), the SP feat is just another issue just like the Madness Domain, the "evil" PrCs in the FRCS, the Archmage (not the Hierophant), et similia... ...there must be a balance between spellcasters and the world, that means also between magic user players and monsters, and magic user enemies and players... ..it's not fun at all to see your Red Wizard cast an Eyebite with DC 30 at level 11, nor its fun to make your players save against a similar DC at a similar level.. ..they clearly cannot do it, nor do the monsters..
AO, you speak of a Sorcy with CHA 34 (+12), SP (+1), Spell Power +3.. ..ok, so your DC are 26+Spell Level.. ..considering a Sorcerer has at his disposal spells that have a save against all three save types, are you really telling me that you are quite often resisted with a Fort DC of 34 (Horrid Wilting), or Ref DC 33 (DBFireball), or WIll DC 32 (Eyebite)? or 36/35/34 if you use Spell Enhancer before? IME, if you choose carefully the save type and you have that DC, the spell 80% of the time is not going to fail.. ..if that is not the case with you, then you DM has probably adjusted up a bit the save bonuses, that means you are freely allowed to pump up your DC without unbalancing the campaign.. ..all in all, it's always a matter of spellcasters/world balance, as I said...
P.S. [My curiosity] 34 Cha @ CLvl 17 w/out Eagle's Splendor? Mmm, 34 -5 (tome) -6 (Cloak of Cha) - 4 (Level ups) = 19.. ..are you an Aasimar?
