D&D 5E (2014) Is stoneskin underpowered?

[Ristamar]

It would have been interesting if they had used a damage threshold instead of resistance for Stoneskin. I wonder if that mechanic had been developed yet since it wasn't mentioned until the DMG was released...

 

[Celtavian]

If stoneskin were not a concentration spell, it would be worth casting on occasion for some people. It's a waste of a slot as a concentration spell and I haven't bothered to use and I haven't see anyone take the spell after three campaigns where characters could cast it.

 

[Coredump]

Oh my. I hadn't even considered the cost. To me that puts it in the unusable category.

100gp....take 2 damage concentration failes and the spell and loot is gone. Nope.

OTOH, take 30 hp of damage before losing conc, and its still better than healing potions.

And it also means you have to take 44 points of damage before your Conc test is >10. With Res Con or Warcaster, a DC 10 test is pretty easy to pass, and those are fairly common feats.

 

[Uller]

OTOH, take 30 hp of damage before losing conc, and its still better than healing potions.

Only _maybe_. If you don't lose concentration. If you even get attacked and hit at all. If you're enemy's attacks aren't magical...too many ifs.

Or you could cast polymorph, get a boat load of bonus XP that don't have all these restrictions and don't cost 100gp.

No matter how you slice it, as is, it just doesn't seem very useful, especially for NPC casters.

In the case of our game, this was in PotA. The "as written" encounter had the caster paired with a weakened version of a stone golem (I replaced it with Earth Elemental stats...but both already have resistance to non-magical weapons). The caster had stoneskin and polymorph prepared. Using stoneskin on himself seemed pointless. Using it on his stone golem was more useless. Because an NPC that survived another fight ran into his room that gave him something useful to cast it on but polymorph seemed much more useful.

Let's compare to other 4th level concentration spells (that cost 100gp to cast)

Banishment: Remove a foe completely from the fight for up to 1 minute (allows one save)
Aura of Life: Gives necrotic resistance to all allies within 30', can't have hp max reduced and revivifies dying allies.
Aura of Purity: You and allies can't be diseases, resistance to poison and adv on saves to anything that causes a bunch of conditions
Conjure Minor Elementals/Woodland Beings: Conjures 1 or more minions (is there a list somewhere of what you can cast...this spell seems somewhat useless without it).
Evards Black Tentacles: Turns an area into difficult terrain, can restrain and damage creatures that start their turn in it.
Grasping Vine: Pull a creature 20 feet over and over (it should at least restrain its target...but still..could keep a foe out of battle if used right)
Watery Sphere: Suck up Large or smaller creatures and restrain them
Arcane Eye: Recon Drone (with dark vision and can go through very small spaces)
Compulsion: force enemies to move in a direction
...and so on...

If I were to house rule this spell I think I'd just have it negate any damage from any source (or maybe from any weapon attack) until you have taken 40hp, plus 10 hp per slot above 4th. So if you use a 4th level slot and take 40+ damage on a single attack, all that damage is negated then the spell ends. That seems worth concentration and 100gp. Maybe say adamantine weapons ignore the spell.

Without house ruling it, I just don't see it being useful.

 

[Mistwell]

All of the concentration spells that grant resistance are rather Underpowered. All it takes is 2 points of damage to make you do a Concentration roll and since almost all casters do not have Con as a favored save it's very easy to lose the spell.

It's a DC 10 check. Not a big deal. Not "very easy" to lose the spell, as the odds are with you unless you opted to have a low Con. If it really bothers you, there is even a feat for it.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Only _maybe_. If you don't lose concentration. If you even get attacked and hit at all. If you're enemy's attacks aren't magical...too many ifs.

Or you could cast polymorph, get a boat load of bonus XP that don't have all these restrictions and don't cost 100gp.

Polymorph is great, but it comes with its own restrictions, the most important of which is size and the second of which is AC, and the third of which is mental saves. If you're fighting indoors where a Huge creature won't fit (like in Out of the Abyss), Polymorph doesn't give very many HP at all, and they are generally on a low-AC chassis anyway (T-Rex AC is 13) which means that mobs will chew them apart. Plus you lose access to class abilities anyway. And you become vulnerable to effects like Hypnotic Pattern and illithid Mind Blast. Against a mob of mooks like two dozen hobgoblins, Stoneskinning your AC 21 fighter minion will make him last longer than turning him into a T-Rex, even in an area where a T-Rex would fit. The Stoneskin will reduce 25.20 DPR to something about half that (12ish?), making your fighter last for eight rounds or so instead of four, and it preserves his ability to Shield himself which doubles that yet again. Stoneskin is adding between four and eight rounds to his lifespan. On the other hand, with Polymorph the T-Rex will take 91.20 DPR out of its 136 HP, so Polymorph is adding a round and a half to his lifespan while negating his ability to use class abilities like a bow.

Polymorph is good but it doesn't fill the same niche as Stoneskin. Instead of enhancing your best guy, it replaces him with someone who is pretty decent. Ergo it works better on someone who is not otherwise your best guy, like a random spoony bard.

IMC, the spell that competes most directly with Stoneskin is Aura of Vitality, which also negates a large amount of damage but doesn't compete for concentration during combat.

No matter how you slice it, as is, it just doesn't seem very useful, especially for NPC casters.

In the case of our game, this was in PotA. The "as written" encounter had the caster paired with a weakened version of a stone golem (I replaced it with Earth Elemental stats...but both already have resistance to non-magical weapons). The caster had stoneskin and polymorph prepared. Using stoneskin on himself seemed pointless. Using it on his stone golem was more useless. Because an NPC that survived another fight ran into his room that gave him something useful to cast it on but polymorph seemed much more useful.

I agree, in that scenario, Stoneskin was pretty useless. If he'd had a T-Rex or a Blue Slaad or a Mind Flayer or something to cast it on, it would have looked a lot better. You want to use it on a glass cannon to make it not so glassy. I'm assuming that the NPC in question was not much of a cannon (glass or otherwise) or else Polymorphing him wouldn't have been such a no-brainer.

Let's compare to other 4th level concentration spells (that cost 100gp to cast)

Banishment: Remove a foe completely from the fight for up to 1 minute (allows one save)
Aura of Life: Gives necrotic resistance to all allies within 30', can't have hp max reduced and revivifies dying allies.
Aura of Purity: You and allies can't be diseases, resistance to poison and adv on saves to anything that causes a bunch of conditions
Conjure Minor Elementals/Woodland Beings: Conjures 1 or more minions (is there a list somewhere of what you can cast...this spell seems somewhat useless without it).
Evards Black Tentacles: Turns an area into difficult terrain, can restrain and damage creatures that start their turn in it.
Grasping Vine: Pull a creature 20 feet over and over (it should at least restrain its target...but still..could keep a foe out of battle if used right)
Watery Sphere: Suck up Large or smaller creatures and restrain them
Arcane Eye: Recon Drone (with dark vision and can go through very small spaces)
Compulsion: force enemies to move in a direction
...and so on...

If I were to house rule this spell I think I'd just have it negate any damage from any source (or maybe from any weapon attack) until you have taken 40hp, plus 10 hp per slot above 4th. So if you use a 4th level slot and take 40+ damage on a single attack, all that damage is negated then the spell ends. That seems worth concentration and 100gp. Maybe say adamantine weapons ignore the spell.

Without house ruling it, I just don't see it being useful.

Quick comments on a couple of those spells: yeah, I love Evard's Black Tentacles. But it is small area and only lasts for a minute, so it doesn't work well against anyone with missile weapons and it cannot be effectively pre-cast before combat, so it has a worse action economy than something like Polymorph or Stoneskin.

Conjure Minor Elementals: there are a handful of elemental creatures of low CR like Fire Snakes and Azers, but if you pick CR 1/4 or 1/2 that mostly means you're going to get Mephits. Try summoning four Magma Mephits to wreck the PCs' day with Heat Metal x4 while your stone golem is tearing them to shreds. Good luck killing the golem when you can't hold your magic weapons, kids...

 

[Zaran]

It's a DC 10 check. Not a big deal. Not "very easy" to lose the spell, as the odds are with you unless you opted to have a low Con. If it really bothers you, there is even a feat for it.

Yeah on paper it looks good until you roll a 1 and lose a high level spell after one turn.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Yeah on paper it looks good until you roll a 1 and lose a high level spell after one turn.

That holds no more weight than saying "Yeah, on paper it looks terrible until you actually roll and rarely ever actually fail."

 

[Zaran]

That holds no more weight than saying "Yeah, on paper it looks terrible until you actually roll and rarely ever actually fail."

It would be a much better spell if that was the case.

 

[bgbarcus]

The NPC cleric that nearly killed my entire party with Spiritual Guardian made three or four concentration saves in three rounds. She was not very high level, they are just easy saving throws to succeed. I don't think anyone in the party was ready to say concentration nerfed that spell.