Is Sunder a melee attack?

[sfedi]

From the SRD table it is listed as a Standard Action.
And it doesn't have the superscript 7 which at the base of the table indicates that it is a melee attack.

Although the description says that Sunder is a melee attack.

The Errara claims that were a contradiction between a table and the description, the description prevails.

So it seems to be that Sunder is a melee attack.

Is this correct?

 

[Lasher Dragon]

Sure, unless it's a ranged sunder. hehehe

Actually there are feats that allow ranged sunder IIRC. Seems kinda silly to me, but what else is new?

 

[Len]

The Errara claims that were a contradiction between a table and the description, the description prevails.

I don't see any contradiction. According to the table, Sunder is a standard action. According to the description, when you perform the Sunder action you make a melee attack against an opponent's weapon. Just because they wrote "Sunder is a standard action" once instead of twice doesn't mean it's false!

That's according to the rulebook. The FAQ says something different (as it so often does).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Amusingly, the FAQ says that it's listed as a standard action 'because it provokes an AoO'.

Neglecting to note that both Grapple and Disarm, which have footnote 7 and can be used once in an attack or charge action, one or more times in a full attack action, or as an AoO, also provoke AoOs.

The FAQ, therefore, is incorrect. Sunder is not listed as a standard action 'because it provokes an AoO'.

That leaves us with two alternatives - it's listed as a standard action because someone screwed up, in the 3E PHB, the 3E SRD, the 3E PHB second printing, the 3E PHB errata, the d20 Modern PHB, the 3.5 PHB, the 3.5 SRD, and the 3.5 PHB errata; or it's listed as a standard action because it's a standard action.

The text makes sense either way. If sunder is a standard action, per the table, then when you take that action, you can use a melee attack to strike blah blah blah.

So since there's no contradiction, why go out of our way to assume that there's an error that's made it through all those documents, and then base our ruling on that assumption of error? Why not use the rule as it appears in the official rulebook?

-Hyp.

 

[CM]

If it is a standard action, that's going to suck for hydra-slayers.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I don't know, that's kind of weird. If you just read the text (ignore the table for a minute), it seems to imply that sunder is made with a melee attack. So therefore, anytime I can make a melee attack, I should have the option to sunder.

True, the table mentions it is a Standard Action, but why would the text not back this up or reinforce it?

Check out "Escape from a Grapple". It is both listed in the Table as a Standard Action and in the descriptive text it tells you it is a Standard Action.

 

[Len]

In other words, if you ignore where it says that Sunder is a standard action, it seems like it might not be. Fair enough.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I don't know, that's kind of weird. If you just read the text (ignore the table for a minute), it seems to imply that sunder is made with a melee attack. So therefore, anytime I can make a melee attack, I should have the option to sunder.

"Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up."

"You can create a wand of any 4th-level or lower spell that you know."

"With the right item creation feat, you can store a metamagic version of a spell in a scroll, potion, or wand."

So (ignore for a minute where it says "Level limits for potions and wands apply to the spell’s higher spell level (after the application of the metamagic feat)") I can store a Maximized Fireball in a wand? Maximize doesn't change the level of the spell, Fireball is 4th level or lower, and I can store a metamagic version in a wand...

-Hyp.

 

[Legildur]

I don't know, that's kind of weird. If you just read the text (ignore the table for a minute), it seems to imply that sunder is made with a melee attack. So therefore, anytime I can make a melee attack, I should have the option to sunder.

That's not how I see it. I see it as 'anytime I can take a Standard Action, I should have the option to Sunder USING a melee attack.'

The melee attack is simply the mechanism used to resolve the Sunder Standard Action. Much like the Manyshot feat requires a Standard Action to fire 2 arrows.