Is the age of discounts over?

[Mistwell]

It was most unwise and reflective of the current court's sharp ideological divide.

Americans have little apprecation of the miscief minimum floor pricing causes. Canadians pay two to two and a half times the prices on many consumer electronics items because of minimum floor price fixing. It is highly anti-consumer. Check out Onkyo'sprices in Canada - where MSRP enforcement is legal - and the USA, where it was not, for example. Many internet resellrs are prevented from shipping to Canada to preserve the floor price in Canada. Newegg can't ship to Canadians to preserve the artifical market in Canada. You have no idea what mischief these bozos on the Supreme Court have just done to you all.

However,when this percolates into the price stream - as it will - Congress will be inundated with complaints. It can be undone in Washington rather quickly by statute. In any event - another administration will bring another appointment or two to the Court should the legislation not be amended directly.

I think you are making a lot more out of this ruling than what it says. It's not an approval of all floor price fixing. It's simply a change in the standard used to determine anti-competitive behavior. It's a case by case basis taking in all of the circumstances surrounding the industry in question. It's not an "okay, everyone can price fix minimums on all products now" ruling. And no, additional appointments to the Court will not likely change this decision. Our USSC doesn't tend to work that way, particularly with issues like this one.

The suggestion that this decision is "pure capitalism" as if that equated with a good thing for the market mentioned by Ryan Dancey was one of the most ignorant comments I have read anywhere this year in print - in any medium.

Then you have not been reading many forums on the internet this year Might I invite you to CircvsMaximvs, where you will find more ignorant comments on a daily basis?

 

[Turjan]

I'd like to add an existing example for price-fixing in a usually competitive market environment.

In Austria and Germany, book prices are set by the publishers. No retailer, online or brick & mortar, is allowed to sell books below this price. These regulations got in front of the highest European Court, a court that regularly crushes anti-competition measures that would be perfectly legal in the US. Nevertheless, the book price fixings were held up.

The court recognized the cultural function of local book stores. Price-fixing allows small local book stores to stay in business, and it allows publishers to print titles that have only a small audience, like poetry - or RPGs .

I'm not sure this would work in the US, because here the development has gone quite far. It's a difficult book market. The US publishes even less titles per year than the UK.

 

[Delta]

In any event - another administration will bring another appointment or two to the Court should the legislation not be amended directly.

It's pretty unlikely it will work that way. Unfortunately, the dissenters in this case are 4 of the 6 oldest on the Court, so it's more likely that a departure and replacement would only re-fill one of the current dissenting seats. The most likely is Stevens who is quite old at age 87, and already voted against this change in law.

 

[GVDammerung]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanefan
I'll be surprised if this ruling stands up in the long run.

Ugh, you realize the last time this was decided it was in place for 96 years? And this one was decided 5-4 on the strength of the newest (youngest) members of our ultimate Supreme Court?

I'd like to share your optimism, but frankly I can't.

Like every Supreme Court decision, this one will be applied and interpreted by lower courts. What's more, the decision itself allows for individual situations to be individually analyzed. As a consequence, this decision will likely be limited by some courts but not others, eventually resulting in a conflict in the circuits that will send the matter back to the Supremes.

At the same time, consumer watchdog groups are no doubt going on alert and will be quick to bring attention to price manipulation adverse to consumer interests.

Politicians love to be the hero for constituents on pocket book issues, so there is a receptive political audience for seeing the decision limited.

Of course, Big Business can sway some of these politicians but Big Business is likely to be split on this issue and unable to present a united front. No one tells Walmart how to price - no one. Amazon has similar interests to protect. And there are likely other businesses whose oxen will be less obviously gored by this decision. Money will flow to all sides of the argument.

Unless the 2008 sees the election of a chimpanzee with an amen congress, this decision will get whittled down to size.

Dancy is in error. Everything did not change. It only appears to have changed at the moment. Patience is a virtue, one fewer and fewer business gurus today possess as they are too woried about the quarterlies to be able to plan much more than 18 months ahead, if that.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

NYC seems to be the Black Hole of FLGSs. The Complete Strategist is far from friendly and I can't remember one in Queens since Hobbies and Such closed its doors YEARS ago.

I do 95% of my RPG shopping online. I'd lower that percentage quite a bit if I actually had a FLGS to give me business to.

Wow, good one. I barely remember Hobbies and Such. But youre right about there not being a great selection of FLGS in the NYC area. There's one in Bklyn called Kings Games but it's at the far end of Brooklyn and therefore out of reach for me as far as regular visits go.

 

[rgard]

I used to try to give my LGS business with special orders, C&C stuff from TLG for examples it was a nightmare. I would order, they would tell me they had no idea when it would be in, hopefully next week. I would call back 2-3 weeks later and ask if they had gotten my book and just forgotten to call me. IF they even remembered sending the order in they would have no way of telling me when it was coming in, so they would say lets order it again and maybe this time it will come in.

Flexor, they BS'd you on not knowing the status of your order. I worked with 3 major distributors and they either had the item or they didn't when I ordered on-line or called in the order. No messing about. If a customer asked me if they could order something, I could check it on-line right then and immediately place the order if it was in stock at the distributor.

The only time something like you describe could happen was when the item was out of stock at the distributor. The distributory had been promised it on a certain date, but the publisher failed to deliver it on that date. That can cause the order not to be filled on time. At that point the FLGS would need to re-order each week until it came in. Chances are they tried to order it, but neglected to re-order it when it didn't come in. It's a broken system with the necessity to re-order but if the FLGS stays on top of things they should be able to get the order in.

Thanks,
Rich

Thanks,
Rich

 

[rgard]

And again, his company, while he was there, got out of the RPG retail market. WotC clearly does not believe it was a critical component of selling RPGs.

Not sure you can make that assumption.

Alternatively, WotC could get out of that market by allowing the independents to sell for them.

Most car dealerships are privately owned, Ford, GM, and the rest let somebody else do the selling for them.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[jmucchiello]

If prices go up, people will stop buying
A lot of research has been done to determine if that is true or false. The data indicates that the answer is false. Most people will still spend as much money as they are spending now if the price goes up.

Am I stupid or does this say that someone who will spend $50 at the discount e-store buying 3 books will not spend $50 at the FLGS buying 2 books? So, some publishing company is losing a sale on this customer. How is this good for the publishers? Even the distributer would rather move 3 books rather than 2.

Second if the e-commerce sites are forced to take more money than they need, they will just offer coupons. bulk kick-backs, and free shipping. "In store" incentives like get $25 of any purchase over $60 will still ring up as full MSRP on every item, but the buyer is still getting his 30% off by using the e-commerce site. The Internet stores will not get swept aside by this ruling.

 

[brehobit]

I think you are making a lot more out of this ruling than what it says. It's not an approval of all floor price fixing. It's simply a change in the standard used to determine anti-competitive behavior. It's a case by case basis taking in all of the circumstances surrounding the industry in question. It's not an "okay, everyone can price fix minimums on all products now" ruling. And no, additional appointments to the Court will not likely change this decision. Our USSC doesn't tend to work that way, particularly with issues like this one.

Agreed on all fronts.

The U.S. Supreme Court yesterday overturned a nearly century-old ruling that prohibited manufacturers from dictating the minimum prices retailers must charge for their goods, saying such agreements could spark competition rather than stifle it.

The 5 to 4 opinion, delivered by Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, found that minimum-pricing requirements by manufacturers do not constitute an automatic violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act. Instead, the agreements must be judged on a case-by-case basis according to a "rule of reason" to determine whether they interfere with market competition.

 

[Glyfair]

The Internet stores will not get swept aside by this ruling.

Probably true. However, it will help level the field.

I've seen quite a number of comments here that certain people would love to support their FLGS, but can't justify not taking advantage of huge internet store savings (at times Amazon has been around 50% off, like the Colossal Red Dragon, without any shipping concerns). They did indicated there is a level they feel is justified as a "having a local FLGS tax" sort of difference. It just was lower than the savings they were getting.

When there is a good FLGS in the area most gamers are willing to support it. However, the difference in cost is the issue. Just saving a small amount (and getting free shipping) won't keep these people from their FLGS and will move some sales back there.

Flexor, they BS'd you on not knowing the status of your order. I worked with 3 major distributors and they either had the item or they didn't when I ordered on-line or called in the order. No messing about. If a customer asked me if they could order something, I could check it on-line right then and immediately place the order if it was in stock at the distributor.

I will note that the ability to check distributor stock online has made a huge jump in hte last year or so. While the ability may have been there before, I know the last year or two the access to stores with wireless networks and computers available at the registers has seem to have rapidly increased (at least in my experience).

I know that it wasn't long ago that I had to ask the store to preorder something early in the day to find out when I'd get it. Today they can find out online almost anytime when something is likely to be available.