Is the age of discounts over?

[Vanuslux]

All I have to say is that if I can't get the books at a discount, I'm not buying new anymore unless the industry gets over its obsession with hardcovers.

 

[Mercule]

BUT, I'm surprised by the general anti-FLGS sentiment on this board.

Speaking only for myself, I'm in no way anti-FLGS. What I'm against is the notion that FLGS are somehow critical to the continuation or growth of the hobby.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Flexor's got it right from my experience. The ST. Charles branch of the LGS is most Friendly, but mostly for board games and CCGs... less so for RPGs. The other branches in the STL area are pretty weak, have few events to speak of, and have a really, really low inventory. Ordering from them will only get 2-day turnaround if the item is in inventory at another store... the last time i tried ordering something which was at a distributor, they said check back in a week or so.

Whenever I happen to be in there, especially if I'm in there for an event, I drop money there, but they're not worth visiting on a frequent basis. To their credit, they bought into Free RPG day, but they didn't advertise it at all, and while they had a board game day, they didn't even announce the RPG stuff... just left it on a table to pick up.

Yeah the St. Charles HQ for The Fantasy Shop is better than the local store I'm next too, but for me its a 25-30 minute drive depending on traffic. The gaming there everytime I've been there has been miniatures, board games, and CCG. The local branches are much smaller and lack gaming space from what I've seen. The other one that did have gaming space went under a year or so ago. I'm sure if I ordered a copy of an out of stock WOTC book I would see it in a week or so...but how does that beat ordering from Amazon? I probably sound harsher on the Fantasy Shop than I really am, but I just don't see any advantage to shopping there at all.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Speaking only for myself, I'm in no way anti-FLGS. What I'm against is the notion that FLGS are somehow critical to the continuation or growth of the hobby.

Same here.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Speaking only for myself, I'm in no way anti-FLGS. What I'm against is the notion that FLGS are somehow critical to the continuation or growth of the hobby.

I happen to agree with the view that a FLGS IS necessary to sustain and grow the hobby.

Online selling is all well and good to those who are aware of the products. But a FLGS provides game space, a meeting point for people and exposure to new products.

We just LOST Dragon and Dungeon. The two main advertising spaces for new products. That is a HUGE problem that I expect will begin to tell 1-3 years from now in a major way.

Yes, online selling can support sales for products people know about to those already in the hobby.

But people leave the hobby. You need to replace them. That "churn" model is delicate and easy to upset. And the death of FLGS's will most definitely upset it.

When people in the business side of the industry are all yelling loudly that keeping the stores alive is vital to longterm business sustenance - I think that view deserves acknowledgement and a certain deference. Not a contrary rasberry that "you know better".

 

[Bagpuss]

I know this doesn't appear to directly effect the UK it probably will in the long term as Amazon.co.uk probably gets most of it's stuff from the US (since the main UK RPG importer seems to already have some sort of monopoly).

I can't see why I would stop spending money at Amazon and switch to a bricks and mortar store.

Even if Amazon sells at the RRP it is still cheaper than the local store, since the local store is travel (fuel expense for 70 miles round trip $8+), and about $2+ in parking (this is for the UK), and Amazon deliver it to my door for free.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

When people in the business side of the industry are all yelling loudly that keeping the stores alive is vital to longterm business sustenance - I think that view deserves acknowledgement and a certain deference. Not a contrary rasberry that "you know better".

When that view isn't explained and certainly not convincingly, I'm not inclined to believe in the papal infallibility of RPG professionals.

 

[rgard]

I happen to agree with the view that a FLGS IS necessary to sustain and grow the hobby.

Online selling is all well and good to those who are aware of the products. But a FLGS provides game space, a meeting point for people and exposure to new products.

We just LOST Dragon and Dungeon. The two main advertising spaces for new products. That is a HUGE problem that I expect will begin to tell 1-3 years from now in a major way.

Yes, online selling can support sales for products people know about to those already in the hobby.

But people leave the hobby. You need to replace them. That "churn" model is delicate and easy to upset. And the death of FLGS's will most definitely upset it.

When people in the business side of the industry are all yelling loudly that keeping the stores alive is vital to longterm business sustenance - I think that view deserves acknowledgement and a certain deference. Not a contrary rasberry that "you know better".

I suspect you are right.

Friends introducing friends is probably the main way folks get into the hobby, but I know from personal experience that the FLGS does bring new people to the hobby. My first customers in March '05 were MtG players and 1 was also a WH 40k player. Over the following 18 months those customers learned to play 3.5 and SW d20 at my store; I DM'd and one other guy who came in early on DM'd. When I called it quits in Nov '06 there were at least 50 people who played 3.5 and SW D20 regulary who had never played before I opened the store. 40 isn't a big number over 18 months, but I also had folks come in who had played 2.0 back in the day, dropped RPGs then returned to the fold with 3.5.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Vocenoctum]

From my perspective, I kind of doubt that they will. BUT, I'm surprised by the general anti-FLGS sentiment on this board.
<snip>
Having FLGS around may not introduce complete novices to the hobby. But they serve as an excellent gateway to get people slightly involved DEEPLY involved. Note that WotC requires that a store have open gaming space available to qualify for their "Premier" store status. Customer X see's Spiderman 3 at the local cinema, and thinks it's cool, so he decided to go to the store to pick up the comic. While there he sees people playing HeroClix, or Mutants & Masterminds, and checks it out...

For myself, I bought my first little red box in a department store (Zayres) and it was years before I found the local gamestore.

Back in my (internetless) day, you depended on the Game Store or Dragon magazine for info about upcoming stuff and what else was out there. The first LGS I went to was run by a version of Comic Book Guy. He loved giving customers a hard time (once explaining to me that my accidental canadian penny meant I only had 3.145 rather than the required 3.15 to buy Dragon) and rarely showed up during his posted hours. His closing lead me to look for real stores though, so all was fine.

The FGS (not very local) was fine, and I'd go once a month to see what had come in. It was fun finding stuff and such, but they were never that helpful either.

When access to the internet gave me release schedules, I realized how sucky the gamestore was. I could see Denver boxed set for SR was released, I knew folks online that had them, but the store wouldn't let me reserve a copy, I had to show up when they had one in stock, and they only ordered one at a time.

Thus, online ordering. I find out about products online in a manner that is much more efficient than asking Counter Guy. I get it shipped to me for lower than retail, and I don't have to drive 40 minutes to get it.

FLGS's would be great if they effectively served their role. The local ones don't feature products very well, use their space very inefficently, have shelves that are deep and go all the way to the floor, thus requiring my 6' frame to kneel down to even see what's there.

Heck, compare a EBGames/Gamestop to a FLGS, small little room packed with games and a big board of releases. Sure, a real gamestore needs table space, but that doesn't mean they need to waste the rest of the area.

 

[Steel_Wind]

I suspect you are right.

Friends introducing friends is probably the main way folks get into the hobby, but I know from personal experience that the FLGS does bring new people to the hobby.

It's not just that. Everytime we have an informal discussion - or even a POLL on ENWorld, the responses to "how old were you when you first started gaming" bring in a very consistent bias of answers that indicate early to mid-teen years as the largest block of answers by far.

The data to that simple answer tells the tale and it has longterm consequences for the hobby.

That's not to say some didn't start younger; nor is it to say some didn't start older. They did and they do. But the lion's share of responses was from people still in school. And that age group is your target market for new players to the hobby.

And kids that age don't have credit cards. They are shut out as customers from online sales unless they can persuade somebody else to buy it for them with a credit card.

That is a HUGE barrier to entry into this hobby.