Is the Cleric class broken/unbalanced?

[Carnifex]

Re: The Cleric is what you make it.

I'm TIRED of conversations that imply that one class is better than another, or that one class is broken at the expense of others. Even the Bard, when used effectively, can be a terror in a game. The Bard can heal, Charm (some of the best spells out there are Charm spells), bolster allies through song, adversely impact adversaries through Charm, and have access to a wealth of very valuable in-game information. That's a lot and I think it's great. Sure, it may not be flashy on the front-end, but in the hands of an imaginative and intelligent player, a Bard can seriously impact a game, just like a Fighter, a Wizard, and a Rogue.

And a Cleric.

The last time I ran a bard was great. He was the only healer in the group, and pretty quickly established himself as the leader; he did much of the talking, outwitted many foes, and also proved himself competent in combat. The party was dominated in combat by our half-orc barbarian but my bard contributed the second most damage during the early levels with his crossbow and heavily enchanted rapier (it ended up with all three types of energy damage on it; when he did hit it really hurt). Bards are great!

 

[I'm A Banana]

For those of you that are wanting a more specialized cleric, one without the extra healer baggage, look no further than the upcoming Philosophies and Falsehoods, which will have a class very readily adapted to such a role...

O'course, it's not out yet, but I'm playtesting it right now, and the girl's havin' fun, so,hey.

 

[Eryx]

The Cleric is a damn good class, and one which is not over or under powered.

I think that what can turn players away from the Cleric is that it is all too often used as a heal monkey (a good term that a friend once called them) instead of a valued fighting class with useful spells.

 

[Nightfall]

Or haven't seen what some clerics can do like say a devotee of Vangal dual wielding battle-axes and using Reaver's Sacrament.

 

[MinscFan]

Most everything has been said about this class in this and other threads since 3E came out.

Before I begin, I'll make it clear -- Clerics are not "broken", overpowered or underpowered. Yes, I've DMed them (since 1st edition) and played them -- most recently going through a campaign where I took my single-classed Cleric up to 16th or 17th level.

I agree with those who say the class is what the player makes of it, and what the DM allows / modifies / destroys.

I do not agree that they are plain vanilla and thus unpopular to play. In point of fact, you could say that every class in the game is "generic" until given some unique personality by the player.

It is a mistake to use PrCs to give a class "personality". That's what role-playing if for.

Clerics, like others classes, benefit from the treatment they are given by the role-player and the DM.

Now some random disconnects...

NEVER remove spontaneous casting for non-evil aligned Clerics. I think allowing spontaneous casting is a way to better enhance a Cleric and it certainly makes people more likely to play one -- now you can pray for spells that are useful in combat, divination, etc. and not have to worry about taking up a bunch of slots with cures.

Clerics (especially in the new d20 system) are divine spellcasters, not the traditional cardboard priests or field medics of 2nd edition. They are identical to Wizards in that they prepare spells, and then cast them as needed. If they are declared broken, then so are all spellcasters.

The differences in spell types, abilities, and numbers of slots between mages and clerics serve to balance the spellcasting classes -- since Clerics can channel energy (turning/ rebuking), Wizards can have familiars and gain (in the long run) a wider variety of spells.

Finally, because I say they aren't broken I'll also admit that when run properly, Clerics can be quite fearsome.

As a player molds his / her cleric during a campaign, there are opportunities (within the rules) to make up for class weaknesses with magic items and preparatory spells. Everyone should fear going against a Cleric who has had time to prepare for the encounter.

Of course, this could be said of any class.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Re: Re: I voted Yes.

I guess with that criteria, the rogue is imbalanced.

FD

Pshaw. Not even close.

Lacking a Rogue can be inconvenient for some dungeon crawls, but Rangers, Bards, Monks, even Paladins can pick up the slack for most of the skills.

 

[The Serge]

Re: Re: Re: I voted Yes.

Pshaw. Not even close.

Lacking a Rogue can be inconvenient for some dungeon crawls, but Rangers, Bards, Monks, even Paladins can pick up the slack for most of the skills.

Lacking a Rogue can be down-right FATAL in some dungeon crawls.

However, if you want to nit-pick, having a Paladin, Druid, Bard, or a Wizard, Fighter, any other class with potions will pick up the slack of no healer in a party...

 

[jgbrowning]

For all the whining, I have yet to see or read about a player group who all made clerics.

FD

ah.. but a group of all clerics would be one of the only all single class groups that would survive...

joe b.

 

[Kalendraf]

Can't get anyone to play one, so they are obviously underpowered!

I have a group with 6 characters. None are clerics. So obviously there is a balance problem, right?

Actually, I think the cleric is about equally balanced with the other classes. But the players in my campaign seem to think otherwise. Maybe it's just that group. But even in other groups I've participated in, it seems like no one ever volunteers to play a cleric, or it's is chosen by the last person choosing his class at which point the player states something like, "Damn, we need a cleric and I'm the last to pick, so I guess I'll have to be the cleric...grumble...grumble."

 

[Carnifex]

Re: Can't get anyone to play one, so they are obviously underpowered!

I have a group with 6 characters. None are clerics. So obviously there is a balance problem, right?

Actually, I think the cleric is about equally balanced with the other classes. But the players in my campaign seem to think otherwise. Maybe it's just that group. But even in other groups I've participated in, it seems like no one ever volunteers to play a cleric, or it's is chosen by the last person choosing his class at which point the player states something like, "Damn, we need a cleric and I'm the last to pick, so I guess I'll have to be the cleric...grumble...grumble."

I on the other hand love playing clerics, but then I do like to play in campaigns with more focus on roleplaying as well as just combat (not that a focus on combat is a bad thing, of course - and even in the most hardcore hack'n'slash campaign clerics can prove to be horrendous combat monsters).

Actually, one of the things I like most about clerics is their divinations, since you can get 'em at even low levels. Divination spells with a good DM are great fun

'So, do we go through there?'

WOE

'I guess not.'