Is the ELH a complete train wreck?

[Telperion]

So I just picked the *Epic Level Handbook* up for a big discount (got it for $7).

Reading through it -- what a wreck! The rules are a complete mess, based on my first pass.

That was my 1st, 2nd and 3rd impression as well. The book is just about as useless as these things get. DMG 3.5 has some rules for Epic characters, and that's all I'm ever going to need.

Besides: I'm quickly sliding towards the camp where characters start around level 3 and the campaign ends when they get to about level 12, or so. Should someone actually manage to sneak an Epic character into my low-magic(item), mid-level, campaign, then they are welcome to play it. For about one session, after which a suitable Deity will be happy to drag the character's sorry ass to the Outer Planes and into a position that will actually put the Epic character's abilities into good (or evil) use.

 

[Numion]

Well, we've thus far used the rules for only 4 levels, to continue our campaign that started at 1st level. Worked fine that far

There are problems in the rules. They should've made them without so big a difference between Epic and non-Epic play. Level 21 should be to level 20 what 20 is to 19. One level higher, nothing more, nothing less. Epic spells were also a stupid idea and stupid execution.

All in all, I figure we might get around 15 levels of play from that book, because there's probably no reason or way to play past 40th level. BTW, there have been funny threads in WotC boards ELHB section about MAAAD campaigns. Funny in a wrong way, but funny nonetheless. One dude had 5000th level campaign, but disappeared when people kept harassing for a copy of the sheets .. prolly didn't want to type those 2500+ feats

 

[kolikeos]

i think the epic rules are unbalanced, overly powerful, and dreadfuly useless. its a waste of your 7$ if you ask me.

 

[Serpenteye]

The Epic spellcasting rules are terrible, the economy-system (item creation and loot) is absurd, and the players have no way of keeping up with the power-increases that are given to the monsters without going 100% munchin.
The ELH needs a lot of work, and it might be easier to throw most of it out and re-make it from scratch.

 

[hong]

I have absolutely no intention of taking my campaign to epic levels, and I LIKE the over-the-top schtick.

 

[Gez]

I wanted to answer "Was ist das" because we haven't enough opportunity to speak German over there, and because "wipe it from the memory of humanity" is a bit too extreme; but eventually I had to go with the first choice. It is dreadful. A huge chunk of obsolete rules, a lot of which looks dreadfully like padding (like all those "Epic Blah: Just like Blah, but with a +4 bonus instead of +2!" feats).

 

[Buttercup]

I bought it in the interest of completeness, but I'll never use it. I have no interest in epic level play, I guess.

I agree with this statement by Numion:

They should've made them without so big a difference between Epic and non-Epic play. Level 21 should be to level 20 what 20 is to 19. One level higher, nothing more, nothing less.

And since I feel that way, if my players ever want to play beyond level 20, I'll just figure it out for myself. How hard can it be?

 

[hong]

I bought it in the interest of completeness, but I'll never use it. I have no interest in epic level play, I guess.

I agree with this statement by Numion:
And since I feel that way, if my players ever want to play beyond level 20, I'll just figure it out for myself. How hard can it be?

Quite hard, actually. If it was easy, do you think they'd have muffed it that bad?

 

[rounser]

I have absolutely no intention of taking my campaign to epic levels, and I LIKE the over-the-top schtick.

Fair enough. How do you manifest said schtick?

 

[hong]

Fair enough. How do you manifest said schtick?

By manifesting it at lower levels, duh!