Is the Illusionist Dead?

[Vymair]

Buddy of mine just started playing an Illusion Specialist in a campaign we just started. I've always thought that Illusionist were great characters, but of all the spells in D&D, the illusionist and the DM have to be on the same page. Illusions are the great test of DM flexibility and judgement and therefore require more trust/understanding on the part of the player and the DM.

It's safer to play an evoker, no one argues about what a fireball does. But when you create an illusion, DM's subjectivity comes into play. You can have the greatest idea for a cool illusion and if your DM decides that its not believable, those saves just got really ez. For better or worse, I think this is one of the reasons players avoid illusionists.

 

[JohnRTroy]

Part of the problem is the Illusionist doesn't have enough special spells IMO.

There needs to be an increase in Phantasms and Shadow magic IMO for one to create a specialist Illusionist. The fact that most Illusions in 1e could cause death due to psychic shock if not disbelieved was a factor that made them powerful. Granted, now Illusionists can access other more deadly magics, but a lot of the old flavor is gone.

I would try to create a few dozen Phantasms that do some weird stuff, that would either cause ability damage or even hit point damage (due to shock), and some shadow stuff to flesh it out. Some of the complete books have been doing this, we need more of that.

 

[Remathilis]

Ummm, you do realize that 3E is not a religion, right? :\

KILL THE HEATHEN!

 

[ForceUser]

...

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Ummm, you do realize that 3E is not a religion, right? :\

You're so right with that!

Of course, D&D is the religion. 3e is just the newest sect within the faith.

Personally, I think those OD&D and AD&D followers are heretics and should be sacrificed via ritual disintegrage (the 3.5 version that does massive amounts of damage, and it should be used as a coup-de-grace)

 

[Voadam]

In the four person party I DM one player is playing a specialist wizard/rogue/arcane trickster.

He is the only PC arcane caster in the party.

My PC from the same party from before I took over DMing is a straight wizard brand of eldritch knight.

So in our 3e experience they are still popular and not dead.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

IME the illusionists have three problems.

1) Specialization is rarely a good thing in the game rules.

2) Image problems (eg they're not supposed to throw fireballs, but they can. It hurts flavor that they can do so and hurts balance if they couldn't, IMO.)

3) Illusions that allow multiple saves. I rarely see the image spells ever get used because it breaks the suspension of disbelief. As soon as one creature sees through the illusion, everyone else groans because they feel they should see through it too. They feel like idiots if they fail their saves and frequently treat the illusions as "obstacles" when this happens. (Eg I feel that creature is real, but I think I'll go kill the mage now.)

It doesn't help that those spells require Concentration (this is at the lower levels when players are still learning how to use illusions).

With their cruddy AC scores, illusions are very easily interacted with. You can't use them as a "guard" because the first person to Tumble past will realize something is up.

Much like the halfling, 3e changed the way gnomes are viewed by default. Races of Stone further extends this retconning of gnomes away from the trickster tinkerer to the artisan, crafstman, and musician that just happens to have a flair for illusions.

Gnome v 3.5 makes perfect sense as a bard. Gnome v 1.0 (and v 2.0 to an extent) does not.

It doesn't help that DnD has never done the gnome well. (It's probably because they're too many races. If you look at Eberron, which only added a few new races, some of the new ones, eg the changeling, are bland, and others, like the warforged, stole the niches of other races.)

I have only seen a gnome I could take seriously once in DnD novels, and the gnome combined two stereotypes, which didn't help make him interesting... but at least he was more than comic relief.

As for Races of Stone, I remember someone mentioning how it made gnomes interesting. I read the section on gnomes, and I disagree. They see things as not real, huh? To me, that screams "pretentious" or perhaps "mentally unstable" rather than interesting.

 

[ghettognome]

I think 3.5 screwed gnomes a bit. I am a gnome lover, and find myself not playing them like I used to. I also love illusionist, but have only played one since d20 came about, and that ended up going the arcane trickster route. There are some great illusion spells out there, you just have to know where to find them. There are some good ones in MoF, of course there are a lot of good spells there.
I actually find that I like playing a specialist wizard more because of the bonus spell I get in that specialty, and with how few spells you really get to cast each time you get a new level, that extra one really makes a difference.(also gives more flavor to the wizard....more direction) I know most would say to just play a sorcerer, but I can't help it, I am a wizard person straight up from back in the day to now.
You know what I would LOVE to see, a 3.5 version of Tome and Magic from 2e. That book had some awsome spells in it, both arcane and divine. Not to mention the wild mage stuff was so much better then.

 

[jcfiala]

I've been having fun in my home campaign with a multiclass Monk/Illusionist, and it goes nicely. A little displacement on myself for that 50% miss chance, or some invisibility or otherwise... it works nicely.

And Phantasmal Killer is an awesome spell - sure, they have to make two saves, but it's the lowest level automatic kill spell in the game.

I look forward to picking up more interesting spells.

 

[Templetroll]

But evoking is boring.

And a cleaving barbarian can deal about the same damage that a fireball does.

I had a gnome illusionist that did great things (IMNSHO) with tactical illusions but the half-orc fighter kept rushing into the illusioned area and failed his saves, even with the bonus for knowing it was an illusion most of the time. The player lamented the change the gnome made into a magic missile gunslinger. I saved the illusions for trying to keep him safe.

I think it was TPK versus undead that ended that one.