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Is the Illusionist Dead?

KaeYoss said:
You're so right with that!

Of course, D&D is the religion. 3e is just the newest sect within the faith.

Personally, I think those OD&D and AD&D followers are heretics and should be sacrificed via ritual disintegrage (the 3.5 version that does massive amounts of damage, and it should be used as a coup-de-grace)

;)


As long as we use the 1st ed AD&D inititaive system...I think your in trouble :p

Save vs spells or eat 38d6 of fireball & if you do save take 72hp of damage thanks to the glory of old-school Demi-Shadow magic.

:lol:

j/k of course as I also play 3e. :uhoh:
 

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Virel said:
As long as we use the 1st ed AD&D inititaive system...I think your in trouble :p

Save vs spells or eat 38d6 of fireball & if you do save take 72hp of damage thanks to the glory of old-school Demi-Shadow magic.

:lol:

j/k of course as I also play 3e. :uhoh:

You know, you use the old stuff, I use the new. So I'll get a ref save against your fireball (and you don't get Int to the DC, since there is no DC), with my evasion, that should be no problem - Even if you go first but I think I'm faster with my blackjack. And when you wake up (from a nonlethal sneak attack - again too bad that you have so few HP's, I get real HD for all levels, not just some, and I get a better Con bonus), you find that you're gagged and bound to the altair (which is a special special edition 3.5 PHB witha stone cover).

I win :p
 

The Illusionist will never die. Any illusionist with the shadow magic spell is going to kill any other stupid specialist wizard varient. And on the subject of Gnome Bards it makes more sense for a dwarf to be a bard they do sing all the time but it would probably be the war-bard from IK or a Skald(gesalt Bardbarian)
 

The other potential problem with illusionists is the good ol' Spellcraft check. If you recognize that the guy over there is casting major image, you're probably not going to believe that the ogre who suddenly comes crashing through the door is real.

Sure, a good illusionists tries not to let himself be observed while casting. But let's be honest, that's just not always possible. This is especially true of PC illusionists, who are often reacting, rather than initiating, when it comes to combat.

I've given some serious thought to letting people with both Sleight of hand and Spellcraft "fake" their spells, making the casting of one spell look like another--or at least making it impossible to tell what spell they're casting. (I don't use cross-class skills in my campaign, but if I did, I'd give SoH to the illusionist as a class skill to go along with this.)
 

Mouseferatu said:
The other potential problem with illusionists is the good ol' Spellcraft check. If you recognize that the guy over there is casting major image, you're probably not going to believe that the ogre who suddenly comes crashing through the door is real.

Sure, a good illusionists tries not to let himself be observed while casting. But let's be honest, that's just not always possible. This is especially true of PC illusionists, who are often reacting, rather than initiating, when it comes to combat.

I've given some serious thought to letting people with both Sleight of hand and Spellcraft "fake" their spells, making the casting of one spell look like another--or at least making it impossible to tell what spell they're casting. (I don't use cross-class skills in my campaign, but if I did, I'd give SoH to the illusionist as a class skill to go along with this.)
Nice idea, but it might be better served to offer it as a feat. That said, the illusionist in the game I run simply starts each combat with invisibility, then plays the puppetteer to his heart's content. Granted, a few monsters see through this, but it's a simple and viable way to prevent observation 99% of the time--unless, of course, the campaign features as a major component a group of foes who see through invisibility regularly. It works IMC, though, happily for him.

I'm going to rave, now: he's very clever. He casts invisibility, then conjures a doppelganger of the enlarged party fighter. He conjures an illusory wall of fire--barring fire resistant enemies, what sane foe is going to barge through a wall of fire to see if it's real? No, they go around, ensuring that his fake wall is as "real" as any other. In a world of magic, most folks aren't going to question if the wizard summoned a demon, or only appeared to. The fact is--why risk finding out the hard way!

I intend to work hard to ensure that illusions have their place, with the caveat that enemy spellcasters who have the opportunity to observe you will sometimes see through the deception and react appropriately.
 

A feat might work, too. It's just a thought I've been juggling, so I haven't really worked through the repurcussions yet.

If I were to design it as a feat, I might give it to specialist illusionists for free. (I prefer to use the specialist rules from Unearthed Arcana, and given the changes I've made to skills/class-skills, the addition of skills as class skills isn't much of a benefit. The feat would be good at making up for that.)
 

Paragon Kobold said:
Is anyone playing an illusionist anymore? Just about all the Wizard specialists I see
these days go for the sheer power of the Evocer, or the versatility of the
Transmuter. There are very few feats for use with illusions, and a lack of suitable
prestige classes.

The last character I played in a regular D&D game was an illusionist.

Evokers are boring.
 

KaeYoss said:
You know, you use the old stuff, I use the new. So I'll get a ref save against your fireball (and you don't get Int to the DC, since there is no DC), with my evasion, that should be no problem - Even if you go first but I think I'm faster with my blackjack. And when you wake up (from a nonlethal sneak attack - again too bad that you have so few HP's, I get real HD for all levels, not just some, and I get a better Con bonus), you find that you're gagged and bound to the altair (which is a special special edition 3.5 PHB witha stone cover).

I win :p

... as you attempt to waylay a Projected Image, you might ponder the error of your ways just before a horizontally cast Prismatic Wall bisects your mid-section... :lol:



BTW

Overall, I agree the 3e stuff will out cruch the 1st ed stuff.
 

Phantasmal Force (and its enhanced versions) are still the most powerful spells in the game.

You just need to know how to use them.
 


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