D&D 5E Is the "setting guide" format defunct?

[DMZ2112]

I don't think that is a realistic approach to 5E's market, which is far wider than the demographic who find decades' old material from older editions appealing.

I think that is an incredibly short-sighted statement. When I was cutting my teeth on AD&D1 around 1990 I could not get my hands on enough material from the 70s, and between my budget and the available supply it was often extremely difficult. I was fascinated by the history and lore of the game and I think the preponderance and availability of such material to today's audience is only going to fan that flame in the sort of youth who is attracted to D&D.

Today's younger D&D fans, like younger D&D fans throughout the history of the game, are not characterized by the oft-quoted 30-minute attention span. Yes, they are probably chomping at the bit for Halo 5. Yes, they probably post to the internet in a grotesque syntax that only peripherally resembles their native tongue. But these are the kids who spend hours upon hours finding every hidden terminal in the Halo games so they can argue at length about the vague metaplot with other fans on Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, and anywhere else they can find to pollute with their unforgivable newspeak.

You're telling me these fans are not going to be interested in thy /why/ of Tiamat, the Cult of the Dragon, and the Princes of Elemental Evil? I say to you that you carry the burden of proof. Because I don't believe it for a second.

 

[Manchu]

I don't think they have any interest in buying PDFs to answer such questions. If we assume they will look for the question electronically, they will head to a forum or more likely a wiki.

BTW expressing incredulity never shifts the burden of proof.

 

[DMZ2112]

::sigh:: No it doesn't.

Yes it does!

I /love/ this game. Now you go!

This makes no sense at all. Every part of the adventure is space not dedicated to setting details off which you can build your own adventures or even just flavor the world. APs are not good setting guides. They are barely good adventures.

If this is the case you're dealing with a subpar AP. Every encounter should worldbuild and every location article should advance the story.

 

[DMZ2112]

I don't think they have any interest in buying PDFs to answer such questions. If we assume they will look for the question electronically, they will head to a forum or more likely a wiki.

I spend a lot of time on the Forgotten Realms wiki, which is arguably the best D&D setting wiki on the web right now (sorry, Dragonlance Lexicon). ...It does not adequately fulfill its responsibilities.

But nor should it! In places it very closely walks the line of copyright infringement. These quests will undoubtedly begin with searching freely available online information, but they will not end there.

As for forums, I find they are good for corroborating facts you already suspect to be true, but ask an honest question and you will get a number of conflicting answers roughly equivalent to the number of posters who deign to reply.

BTW expressing incredulity never shifts the burden of proof.

The burden of proof didn't need shifting; I was merely pointing out that it was always on you.

 

[Manchu]

The burden of proof didn't need shifting; I was merely pointing out that it was always on you.

Oh no, my friend. Here's where you made the claim:

Wizards's substantial back catalog of setting material, which obviates the need for more broad-scope publications

That's where you assumed the burden. My response simply asserted skepticism about your claim and the lack of evidence supporting it.

But let's make sure we aren't talking past each other. Here's what I am NOT arguing: new players will never be interested in material from older editions. Here's what I am arguing: the availability in PDF form of materials from older editions does not necessarily obviate the release of setting guides in 5E trade dress written with 5E's demographic in mind.

 

[DMZ2112]

Oh no, my friend. Here's where you made the claim:That's where you assumed the burden. My response simply asserted skepticism about your claim and the lack of evidence supporting it.

No, sir. That's just my opnion. You, on the other hand, implied knowledge of the purchasing habits of D&D5's fanbase.

But let's make sure we aren't talking past each other. Here's what I am NOT arguing: new players will never be interested in material from older editions. Here's what I am arguing: the availability in PDF form of materials from older editions does not necessarily obviate the release of setting guides in 5E trade dress written with 5E's demographic in mind.

I hear and disagree! But thank you for the clarification.

Here is something else I will say: if dndclassics.com is really going to shoulder the load of D&D5's backstory, Wizards needs to do a much better job at both promotion and support. If things remain as they are, I am inclined to agree with you more than I'd like, for the simple reason that no one will ever realize the back catalog is there for the plundering.

 

[Manchu]

Ah so all you meant was that the PDFs of older materials suffice for you personally?

 

[DMZ2112]

Ah so all you meant was that the PDFs of older materials suffice for you personally?

I have no authority to make a claim beyond that, and perhaps to rhetorically suggest that those who feel differently are base villains.

 

[Manchu]

Alright, now that we have established that DMZ2112 personally, individually, without implication to anyone else whatsoever has no use for 5E setting guides we can get back on back topic ...

One of the reasons I picked Ravenloft for the poll is that Ravenloft (as the name suggests) began as an adventure module. And every D&D setting I can think of began as someone's campaign. (Maybe not Eberron?) The concept of the setting guide that I am most familiar with is the 3E model, where you start with a setting book and then you have setting accessories and setting adventures. That seems to be what others posting ITT have in mind as well.

But what if APs had a bit more setting info -- more detailed maps and larger casts of NPCs. Would you still need a separate setting book? It seems to me, you could easily set an adventure of your own making "next to" the plot of the AP. Some group of NPCs is pursuing the AP and your PCs can ignore them or weave into and out of their progress as desired. Granted, you have a more narrow "world" to play in (a region rather than a continent) but -- especially when it comes to Ravenloft -- isn't this sufficient? Setting guides are sometimes so high-level that I feel they are better suited to use in strategy games than roleplaying.

 

[DMZ2112]

Alright, now that we have established that DMZ2112 personally, individually, without implication to anyone else whatsoever has no use for 5E setting guides we can get back on back topic ...

If that's all it takes to invalidate a point of view here we are all in a lot of trouble.

One of the reasons I picked Ravenloft for the poll is that Ravenloft (as the name suggests) began as an adventure module. And every D&D setting I can think of began as someone's campaign. (Maybe not Eberron?)

I don't think so, Manchu. You are right insofar as Ravenloft is the only setting with an origin in a single pre-existing adventure, but most of the D&D settings were not campaigns first and published settings later. Eberron might actually be one of the few that /did/ see play in some form before publication -- I don't know its history well enough to say.

But what if APs had a bit more setting info -- more detailed maps and larger casts of NPCs. Would you still need a separate setting book? It seems to me, you could easily set an adventure of your own making "next to" the plot of the AP. Some group of NPCs is pursuing the AP and your PCs can ignore them or weave into and out of their progress as desired. Granted, you have a more narrow "world" to play in (a region rather than a continent) but -- especially when it comes to Ravenloft -- isn't this sufficient? Setting guides are sometimes so high-level that I feel they are better suited to use in strategy games than roleplaying.

I have bought a few of the Pathfinder APs for this reason. I'm not interested in watching players experience the story they are telling but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in the story, or that I might not be interested in watching players experience something similar to the story, in a place that strongly resembles or is somehow related to the setting of the story.

For me, subscribing to Dungeon Magazine was always a waste of money, but that doesn't mean I didn't buy my fair share of single issues off the newsstand. And why is that? I'm not raiding them for something to do -- I'm raiding them for worldbuilding ideas. And what is a setting guide but a collection of related worldbuilding ideas? Good adventures have the benefit of additionally including a compelling narrative.